Is a change in control coming?

[johnny kat]

http://us.rd.yahoo.c...html?cmpid=yhoo

If I am reading this correctly, is a change of control coming?

 

[WorldTraveler]

the article speaks to naming a new board which is quite common in BK cases and does not mean a change in control, which incidentally has a very specific definition specifically to the IRS. AMR will work very hard to NOT invoke a change in control because doing so could mean the lost of billions of dollars of tax assets - which incidentally is probably why legally an AA-US merger even if it happened would probably involve AA legally being the remaining company. Just sayin'

 

[johnny kat]

WT, it would be great news for the US employees if AA would legally be the corporate structure and be considered managed by the AA chain of command even if Parker is the new CEO, because it would trigger a change in the way the PBGC would offer benefits to the former US employees. The former US employees could start the PBGC benefits at any time after age 55 and continue working for AA as well. While this doesn't sound like any great shakes it does provide a way to increase 401k funding to levels that would help of lot of employees to better fund retirement. In other words if your given lemmons, then make some lemmon aid.

If it were to be structured the other way then the former US employees could not take PBGC benefits until resigning or otherwise would have to wait until normal retirement age to "Double Dip". These are the rules that the PBGC and US agreed to when our pension plans were terminated.

 

[TWU informer]

Of course I do not have a feel or understand the whole corporate overview.
But, from a tulsa perspective, if change does not come soon, you will see another eastern airlines type of documentary.

 

[IORFA]

Pretty sure that is wrong. I'm fairly certain the TWA employees had to quit/retire from AA before they got anything from the PBGC. If I'm wrong, then good for them/you. Anything helps.

 

[johnny kat]

IORFA,

It is true. There are many f/a's at US that already "Triple Dipping", at age 65 they can fly, draw the PBGC pension, and take social security benefits. The double dip scenario occurs when there is a change in control and US corporate structure is no more. All of this was negotiated by the PBGC and US at the time f/a's were forced to give up retirement benefits or else from the former crooks who ran the place.

 

[IORFA]

Yeah, maybe at 65, you said 55. All I know is that they said they had to quit/retire from AA before they got their PBGC pension. Like I also said, great good for all involved. No skin off my back. I know Eastern people could take at 55, but AA didn't buy them. I know people don't always have accurate info either. Doesn't affect me, so I don't pay too much attention to it. Although I will say that the TWA people were pretty knowledgable about things like that.

 

[johnny kat]

The triple dippers have to be full retirement age. The "Change of Control" caveat triggers the double dip scenario. Someone who is 55 can take PBGC reduced early retirement benefits and fly the maximum hours too. I guess its different for each former airline. This is in no way a dig at the TWA people. This information was discussed by the AFA attorney on the "ourafa.org" townhall meeting after the first TA was turned down last April or May.

Best of luck to you and all the TWA folks.

 

[firedougparker]

I'm sure Doug Parker wants a change in control in his favor, but I don't see it happening. There's a full on rebellion among the unions here at US, since we're sick and tired of Doug making deals behind our backs while we work for bankruptcy wages.

 

[ChockJockey]

There's a full on rebellion among the unions here at US

Interesting. Where do you see evidence of that?

 

[OldBubba]

Turned 55 in Sept. started with TWA in 11/85, as of 12/01/2012 the PBGC well pay me $87 every mo. for life. I'm getting rich LOL. I could have waited and got $175 every mo. at age 65.

As for the IAM retirement you must not be working in the airline field to draw it. And for me it well be around $140 a mo.

Some old old guys at MCI did drawing the PBGC, social security benefits, mililtary, and I belive after 70 they must draw from thier 401k. So if they where over 55 after TWA retirement went to the PBGC thier ck would have been around $700 a mo.( full retirement pay) If under 55 then it was cut in half or more at 55 and you could wait tell 65 to draw full amount.

 

[Barfbag]

Since we're throwing the name of a great company around aka TWA, and the topic is about change in control..
( naming new board members ) not different pensions plans and the like ;

The employees at AA are still fortunate that even this late in the bankruptcy proceeding they still have the remnants of a corporation with which they can negotiate. When Ichan ripped off TWA he quickly rid the company of the Board of Directors and then began to dismantle the company from within.

At the behest of the union's invitation Dr.Carl quickly performed non - anesthetic surgery, removing most vital organs from his new patient, then just as quicklly exited the OR.

 

[jersey777]

This is great news. I am all for a change in leadership!

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Turned 55 in Sept. started with TWA in 11/85, as of 12/01/2012 the PBGC well pay me $87 every mo. for life. I'm getting rich LOL. I could have waited and got $175 every mo. at age 65.

As for the IAM retirement you must not be working in the airline field to draw it. And for me it well be around $140 a mo.

Some old old guys at MCI did drawing the PBGC, social security benefits, mililtary, and I belive after 70 they must draw from thier 401k. So if they where over 55 after TWA retirement went to the PBGC thier ck would have been around $700 a mo.( full retirement pay) If under 55 then it was cut in half or more at 55 and you could wait tell 65 to draw full amount.

This is something else that happens with the IBT(teamsters) they will stop your pension if you get a job in the same field of aviation as well. How BS is that that the union you paid to protect you now can stop your pension if you are required to go back to work, or need exta money for bills. IAM and the IBT are just industrial union which we need to rid the airline industry of. May have been good back in the day, when numbers of members counted and could direct power but those days are long gone.

 

[Bob Owens]

I'm sure Doug Parker wants a change in control in his favor, but I don't see it happening. There's a full on rebellion among the unions here at US, since we're sick and tired of Doug making deals behind our backs while we work for bankruptcy wages.

When we met with the USAIR management team last July I asked them why would we expect that they would treat us any better than they treat you guys, and they treat you like crap, only slightly better than AA treats us. They spewed out some crap about how the combined carrier would create synergies that would allow them to bring wages up near the other carriers. Southwest is smaller than either US or AA yet they pay better than both so size wont change the way they treat us. According to them everyone over at US bought into their plan, they give away cars and everybody is happy to be making crappy wages because they have parties and stuff. Even the editing could not hide that the place is full of fossils waiting for the day they get medicare to bail.(they admitted that the average age for mechanics is 55) They claimed that their feel good programs boosted productivity which is reflected as an improvement in their on time stats etc. I asked if the improvement was due to new aircraft (didnt you guys simplify your fleet as well?) I told them that USAIR is the last carrier I'd like to see AA merge with. I'd hate to see the largest airline in the world being the one that treats their workers worse than any other carrier, all that would do is drive down wages across the industry.

Unfortunately I think that a merger is inevitable, but not for the reasons that are thown out there by the corporate media, I think they will merge because they need the pilots and mechanics, both of which are in short supply. With the mergers of Delta and NWA, UAL and CAL and WN and Ait Tran no mechanics (not sure about the pilots) were furloughed as a reslt of the mergers, I've never seen that happen before. Granted it will only stave off the crises for a few years but I think they are desperate. AA just screwed themselves. Only 9 mechanics chose to go to New York in the first wave, scores chose the street instead, dozens here are waiting to leave and the company has to let them go by September, mindset wise they are already gone. Most of the guys with 20 or more years left working are putting in for the MTA or other carriers, better pay and much better benefits. Just because they didnt jump at the paltry EO or the SIS doesnt mean they arent looking to leave. Some are waiting for 55, so we can collect a pension, then bail, some have to stay because there is no retiree medical, but they arent going to get much out of them, nobody is really motivated. Nobody cares. AA will be forced to hire students, or rejects, employees who were terminated from other carriers who will likely bring the same habits here that got them in trouble there, like Timco did up in BOSTON, apparently loose seats were only part of the problems that resulted from that move. The kids they hire will look at AA like our generation looked at Transamerica, Capitol, New York Air and Arrow, a place to get experience so you can move on to a real job. The comapny will only have a week or so to brainwash them , we will have 8 hours every night to let them know what a crappy place this has become, worst in the industry and the industry isnt that good anymore either. If Don and the ATD get their way and dump 1000 more members into 514 then the same thing will happen in 2018 that happened in 2003 and 2008-12, they will accept bottom of the industry as long as they say they will keep Tulsa open, but only as long as the line doesnt get anything they dont get. Why would young line mechanics stay at AA? Lowest pay, least amount of vacation, no Holidays off and you only get 4 hours extra pay five time a year for working them, a crappy 401k, 5.5% of $41k ($2288) isnt going to get any new hire to stick around. That doesnt even make up for the week of vacation they dont get or the 100 hours less they get paid every year for working all the holidays that they would get if they left AA.Field trips and OT? We have the worst rules in the industry.



For the first five years, at AA you get ONE WEEK of vacation. If you work the line you will work all the Holidays and net an extra 20 hours pay. We will add that in as paid time off, so at AA you get 7.5 days PTO. You get five sick days but you cant use them unless you are sick so we wont include that as PTO. At step 1 his PTO is worth around $1200



Jet Blue. Non-Union,Upstart LCC. If on his fifth year he quits AA where he still only gets 7.5 days PTO and goes to Non Union Jet Blue, he would get 30 days PTO or four times what he gets at AA. At Jet Blue the PTO (plus Holidays) package for a topped out mechanic is worth around $14,400(12 years in the industry -Jet Blue hires up the scale based on experience). At AA the max after 30 years is worth just $7480. If we throw in the sick pay you can add another $1200, but you have to subtract the $700 in Union dues so say $500. So after 30 years at AA the value of your PTO would be a little more than half of what guys at Jet Blue have for most of their career. Why would anyone who isnt locked in by age and seniority stay at AA?

Even for guys with 15 years it simply doesnt make sense to stay with AA, even for the short term. Lets look at paid time off at AA and how it compares to other carriers, even non union. If they give him 15 years credit he would start at top pay at Jet Blue, so right there he would get a $12,000 a year raise. PTO is normally something you accumulate over time, so how would he fare as far as PTO?? After 15 years at AA he would have 15 days vacation. More than likely he would have zero hours sick time because on average mechanics use over 5 days per year, we only get five. So lets say he used all his sick so he got 20 days PTO but had to put up with being harassed and told how he was being unfair to the company and his coworkers for using his sick time, even though everyone in the industry, in pretty much evey industry, gets more time off than he does. So even after 15 years at AA he would get 10 more days off per year by jumping ship, dumping his seniority and going to non-union Jet Blue. Holidays? I believe Jet Blue adds 8 hours of PTO for each Holiday worked, so that adds two more weeks of PTO. So even if pay rates were the same leaving AA is a no brainer for young mechanics because there is no future here.

Sure it hasnt happened yet, and unlike the pilots its hard to predict when it will happen because mechanics can stay on till they die but the exodus is coming and AA will be losing mechanics faster than they can contract out the work. They will be losing them faster than they did in the late 80s but ther are no EALs or Pan Ams out there to save the day and provide AA mechanics and pilots, They will be losing them in places where they need them the most, high cost line stations where they wont be able to retain the young and wont be able to demand much from the old. If competitors are smart they will refuse to do contract work for AA in areas they cant keep staffed with mechanics.

And the people who created this mess, Ream, Horton, et al, well of course they will be gone, basking in the millions they stole from us, putting some other operation "through the washing machine" hoping they can deal with Unions like ours. The new guys , well they will be full of speaches and probably start giving away cars and trying to get the old men to smile for the camera so they can tell everyone how we are all just so happy to be working for crap.