Besides, it's not us the company or industry can't afford Mr Pilot...we're just getting sucked into the vacuum you guys created
Is Bankrupcty a better option?
- Thread starter wts54
- Start date
- Status
[blockquote]
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On 11/26/2002 2
50 PM aircraft_artificer wrote:
Good thing those at US Airways voted in concessions. LOL. 2500 more just hit the street. No notice etc. I bet they are glad to have SAVED the company.
http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/021126/airlines_us...ays_jobs_6.html
Nope not a dime WITHOUT a business plan. So far the only thing offered is "Cuts or Bankruptcy". No plan for the future at all.
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[/blockquote]
Uh, we HAVE one. We can't implement it until we get the loans. Ask UAL777. If they published a confidential business plan, do you think you'd understand it? The reason U is still laying off folks is because they are BANKRUPT. THEY DON'T CONTROL THEIR OWN COMPANY!
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On 11/26/2002 2
50 PM aircraft_artificer wrote: Good thing those at US Airways voted in concessions. LOL. 2500 more just hit the street. No notice etc. I bet they are glad to have SAVED the company.
http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/021126/airlines_us...ays_jobs_6.html
Nope not a dime WITHOUT a business plan. So far the only thing offered is "Cuts or Bankruptcy". No plan for the future at all.
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[/blockquote]
Uh, we HAVE one. We can't implement it until we get the loans. Ask UAL777. If they published a confidential business plan, do you think you'd understand it? The reason U is still laying off folks is because they are BANKRUPT. THEY DON'T CONTROL THEIR OWN COMPANY!
Good thing those at US Airways voted in concessions. LOL. 2500 more just hit the street. No notice etc. I bet they are glad to have SAVED the company.
http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/021126/airlines_us...ays_jobs_6.html
Nope not a dime WITHOUT a business plan. So far the only thing offered is Cuts or Bankruptcy. No plan for the future at all.
http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/021126/airlines_us...ays_jobs_6.html
Nope not a dime WITHOUT a business plan. So far the only thing offered is Cuts or Bankruptcy. No plan for the future at all.
[blockquote]
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On 11/26/2002 1:58:07 PM mastermechanic wrote:
Whew...did that feel good...sorry for the typo's
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[/blockquote]
Good, I'm glad you got that off your chest, now don't be an idiot, go vote yes. That taking them all down with me is the same attitude the 19 #$$%$# had when they commited suicide because they couldn't deal with the world. It was all everyone else fault. That'll be an equally telling epitath for you. You gonna put that on your next job application? Why yes, I intentionally put UAL in BK to show management than mine is bigger, hire me and I'll do the same for your company Every Jiffy Lube in the state will be lining up to hire you!!
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On 11/26/2002 1:58:07 PM mastermechanic wrote:
Whew...did that feel good...sorry for the typo's
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[/blockquote]
Good, I'm glad you got that off your chest, now don't be an idiot, go vote yes. That taking them all down with me is the same attitude the 19 #$$%$# had when they commited suicide because they couldn't deal with the world. It was all everyone else fault. That'll be an equally telling epitath for you. You gonna put that on your next job application? Why yes, I intentionally put UAL in BK to show management than mine is bigger, hire me and I'll do the same for your company Every Jiffy Lube in the state will be lining up to hire you!!
- Thread Starter
- #21
ual24 I never said I personally was taking a massive paycut,
but maybe the article I posted did.Argue with the newspaper.
All I said was I was changing my mind and thanks for calling
me names again you intolerant j**k.
ual727fo I dont hate you or your profession I will however vote
as I see fit regardless.Also I didnt say I could do better outside
of UAL,but I will survive this its not the end of the world. Dont
worry the loan most likely will be approved as well as the IAM vote.
Or we will get to vote over and over again until they get the desired outcome.
At what point are you guys going to say enough is enough?Look at USAir
they keep chipping away at those people.When will you stand up and tell
them hell no? When you are getting rj wages just to keep flying?They are
not going to stop with this.When has Ual shown its employees it intends
to do right by them.They never had any intention of paying the pilot and mechanics contract when they signed them,and you guys will figure that out
one day.When do all of us say enough is enough and just let ual implode
under their own weight.
but maybe the article I posted did.Argue with the newspaper.
All I said was I was changing my mind and thanks for calling
me names again you intolerant j**k.
ual727fo I dont hate you or your profession I will however vote
as I see fit regardless.Also I didnt say I could do better outside
of UAL,but I will survive this its not the end of the world. Dont
worry the loan most likely will be approved as well as the IAM vote.
Or we will get to vote over and over again until they get the desired outcome.
At what point are you guys going to say enough is enough?Look at USAir
they keep chipping away at those people.When will you stand up and tell
them hell no? When you are getting rj wages just to keep flying?They are
not going to stop with this.When has Ual shown its employees it intends
to do right by them.They never had any intention of paying the pilot and mechanics contract when they signed them,and you guys will figure that out
one day.When do all of us say enough is enough and just let ual implode
under their own weight.
To compare what happened with US Airways TPA Hangar with UA's situation is getting ahead of yourselves. We, at UA, still have the opportunity to control our destiny somewhat, because we are not yet in bankruptcy. If we're lucky enough to get approval of our ATSB application, we have the ability to restructure under our own terms. It's hitting the fan at US because they're ALREADY in bankruptcy. So they are a classic example of why we should do everything possible to avoid it. They've lost control of their company because it now lies in the hands of the creditor's committee and bankruptcy judge. And because of that, US is now forced to go and get more cost cuts. We're not at that point yet. But if any groups insist on voting down the ERP's and thus push us into bankruptcy, you can bank on it getting just as ugly, if not uglier. In fact, many people will be downright shocked at what transpires and what changes are made.
The business plan exists and is viable. Don't read into the disinformation and b.s. propaganda being bandied about by Leo, Gordie, Donny and Richie. Our business plan is viable and it contains numerous revenue enhancements that will be coming. The other airlines know it and are afraid of having to compete against us. That is why they are whispering into the ears of whatever schill that will listen to them (the press and political hacks). But, there is a very real chance that we will not get our ATSB loan. In that event, it is absolutely essential for UA to have all ducks in a row to ensure our trip through the courts is short and sweet. That is possible. But it entails having concessionary agreements from all unions in place, agreements with vendors for lower payments and DIP financing. I simply do not understand the mentality of IAM members who are willing to destroy their company because they don't agree with what their union gave up in the ERP. If that's the case, sign your damn AMFA card and hope they represent you better. Otherwise organize a grass-roots campaign to de-certify your union and take your chances. But the company negotiated with the IAM. The IAM agreed to give back what is in the ERP. Why destroy UA over your beef with your union? You folks are always complaining about how you are not respected and are treated like morons. While I don't agree that you are, it's easy to see why many people perceive you that way when you go about the process of voting on an important necessity for UA's survival with such reckless abandon. I think that under the circumstances, the ERP could have been a lot worse. And in bankruptcy, it DOES get even worse. Look at US Airways. I'll bet many of those folks wish they had worked harder at an out-of-court restructuring.
All things considered, what would YOU have been willing to give up? What would have been acceptable? If you just flat-out refuse to give up anything and are willing to destroy UA permanently over it, than you deserve your outcome. But I find it incredibly selfish that you feel entitled to take 84,000 of us with you. Put the ego in check and the emotion aside and examine the situation with facts, not anger. Wake up before it's too late.
The business plan exists and is viable. Don't read into the disinformation and b.s. propaganda being bandied about by Leo, Gordie, Donny and Richie. Our business plan is viable and it contains numerous revenue enhancements that will be coming. The other airlines know it and are afraid of having to compete against us. That is why they are whispering into the ears of whatever schill that will listen to them (the press and political hacks). But, there is a very real chance that we will not get our ATSB loan. In that event, it is absolutely essential for UA to have all ducks in a row to ensure our trip through the courts is short and sweet. That is possible. But it entails having concessionary agreements from all unions in place, agreements with vendors for lower payments and DIP financing. I simply do not understand the mentality of IAM members who are willing to destroy their company because they don't agree with what their union gave up in the ERP. If that's the case, sign your damn AMFA card and hope they represent you better. Otherwise organize a grass-roots campaign to de-certify your union and take your chances. But the company negotiated with the IAM. The IAM agreed to give back what is in the ERP. Why destroy UA over your beef with your union? You folks are always complaining about how you are not respected and are treated like morons. While I don't agree that you are, it's easy to see why many people perceive you that way when you go about the process of voting on an important necessity for UA's survival with such reckless abandon. I think that under the circumstances, the ERP could have been a lot worse. And in bankruptcy, it DOES get even worse. Look at US Airways. I'll bet many of those folks wish they had worked harder at an out-of-court restructuring.
All things considered, what would YOU have been willing to give up? What would have been acceptable? If you just flat-out refuse to give up anything and are willing to destroy UA permanently over it, than you deserve your outcome. But I find it incredibly selfish that you feel entitled to take 84,000 of us with you. Put the ego in check and the emotion aside and examine the situation with facts, not anger. Wake up before it's too late.
Mastermech and wts,
I'm trying to understand you guys. What was your background before UAL? Mine is twelve years glider towing,night freight, and American Eagle. Do you guys honestly believe you can do better on the outside? I'm sure Great Lake or Mesa is hiring. P.S. Where does the envy/pilot hating come from?
I'm trying to understand you guys. What was your background before UAL? Mine is twelve years glider towing,night freight, and American Eagle. Do you guys honestly believe you can do better on the outside? I'm sure Great Lake or Mesa is hiring. P.S. Where does the envy/pilot hating come from?
- Thread Starter
- #24
Mastermechanic,my only complaint is that unless you tow the party
line here you will get hammered.I say vote however you think is
correct.This is a free and democratic country and you have the right
to be fully informed and then make your choice.I dont scare easily.
So in spite of the hatefulness you may receive just do what you
think is right.
Mastermechanic which ever way this goes it wont be over the company
is going to come back time and again like a crack addict looking
for more money.If the deal is approved we will go through this stuff
again until they whittle away everything we have ever gotten.
line here you will get hammered.I say vote however you think is
correct.This is a free and democratic country and you have the right
to be fully informed and then make your choice.I dont scare easily.
So in spite of the hatefulness you may receive just do what you
think is right.
Mastermechanic which ever way this goes it wont be over the company
is going to come back time and again like a crack addict looking
for more money.If the deal is approved we will go through this stuff
again until they whittle away everything we have ever gotten.
[blockquote]
----------------
On 11/26/2002 5:59:05 PM wts54 wrote:
Mastermechanic,my only complaint is that unless you tow the party
line here you will get hammered.I say vote however you think is
correct.This is a free and democratic country and you have the right
to be fully informed and then make your choice.I dont scare easily.
So in spite of the hatefulness you may receive just do what you
think is right.
Mastermechanic which ever way this goes it wont be over the company
is going to come back time and again like a crack addict looking
for more money.If the deal is approved we will go through this stuff
again until they whittle away everything we have ever gotten.
----------------
[/blockquote]
Perhaps you are right; but, you might find it nice to have a paycheck from United
while you are looking for that green grass on the other side of the fence.
----------------
On 11/26/2002 5:59:05 PM wts54 wrote:
Mastermechanic,my only complaint is that unless you tow the party
line here you will get hammered.I say vote however you think is
correct.This is a free and democratic country and you have the right
to be fully informed and then make your choice.I dont scare easily.
So in spite of the hatefulness you may receive just do what you
think is right.
Mastermechanic which ever way this goes it wont be over the company
is going to come back time and again like a crack addict looking
for more money.If the deal is approved we will go through this stuff
again until they whittle away everything we have ever gotten.
----------------
[/blockquote]
Perhaps you are right; but, you might find it nice to have a paycheck from United
while you are looking for that green grass on the other side of the fence.
Wow! A guy who does not work for Ual gets all the Ual guys to agree with him.
Bob, Have you also been going around Washington and lobying the atsb to not grant Ual the loan?
Would all you mechanics send me your e-mail addresses privately so I can see how you are all doing in about 3 years.
I cannot believe the lack of intelligence you are representing here. Looks like the emotional side has won out.
I guess hindsight will be your 20/20 in the near future.
I wish you all would have researched what BK can mean to you. Too bad.
First you give unions a bad rap about feather bedding. Now your going to show the world how stupid union people can be too.
Sorry, I am appalled with this thread.
Good luck to us all. We are going to need it.
Bob, Have you also been going around Washington and lobying the atsb to not grant Ual the loan?
Would all you mechanics send me your e-mail addresses privately so I can see how you are all doing in about 3 years.
I cannot believe the lack of intelligence you are representing here. Looks like the emotional side has won out.
I guess hindsight will be your 20/20 in the near future.
I wish you all would have researched what BK can mean to you. Too bad.
First you give unions a bad rap about feather bedding. Now your going to show the world how stupid union people can be too.
Sorry, I am appalled with this thread.
Good luck to us all. We are going to need it.
Wow, I bet the non-mechanics around here try to argue with tow truck drivers when they're on the side of the road also.
They won't berate the driver. They will call the ownership and ask if that could be outsourced (and a rebate check sent).
A fair vote will fail......Not because of the %s, but because of years of lying and self-aggrandizing by moderately imcompetant management.
A fair vote will fail......Not because of the %s, but because of years of lying and self-aggrandizing by moderately imcompetant management.
- Thread Starter
- #29
Reuters
United Plan Sees $14.1 Billion Cuts
Tuesday November 26, 6:12 pm ET
CHICAGO (Reuters) - United Airlines parent UAL Corp. (NYSE:UAL - News) said on Tuesday it plans cost cuts and revenue improvements totaling $14.1 billion over 5-1/2 years, including $5.2 billion in labor cuts, as it looks to avert bankruptcy.
The give-backs from union and nonunion workers total less than the $5.8 billion announced in October after taking into account capacity reductions at the airline, but those cuts will improve profits by $1.2 billion, United said.
Elk Grove Village, Illinois-based United, the No. 2 U.S. air carrier behind AMR Corp.'s (NYSE:AMR - News)American Airlines, hopes the cost-cutting plan will be enough to obtain federal loan guarantees for $1.8 billion of a $2.0 billion loan.
All of UAL's current labor agreements will be extended to mid-May 2008, and employees will take wage cuts and forgo scheduled pay increases for the plan in exchange for stock options, United said.
United previously said it expected to save about $1.4 billion annually in non-labor costs and revenue enhancements to round out the total plan.
United Plan Sees $14.1 Billion Cuts
Tuesday November 26, 6:12 pm ET
CHICAGO (Reuters) - United Airlines parent UAL Corp. (NYSE:UAL - News) said on Tuesday it plans cost cuts and revenue improvements totaling $14.1 billion over 5-1/2 years, including $5.2 billion in labor cuts, as it looks to avert bankruptcy.
The give-backs from union and nonunion workers total less than the $5.8 billion announced in October after taking into account capacity reductions at the airline, but those cuts will improve profits by $1.2 billion, United said.
Elk Grove Village, Illinois-based United, the No. 2 U.S. air carrier behind AMR Corp.'s (NYSE:AMR - News)American Airlines, hopes the cost-cutting plan will be enough to obtain federal loan guarantees for $1.8 billion of a $2.0 billion loan.
All of UAL's current labor agreements will be extended to mid-May 2008, and employees will take wage cuts and forgo scheduled pay increases for the plan in exchange for stock options, United said.
United previously said it expected to save about $1.4 billion annually in non-labor costs and revenue enhancements to round out the total plan.
westcoastfo;
How quickly you forget those who helped you get your super raise a short time back.
How quickly you forget those who helped you get your super raise a short time back.
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