JFK-HND returns but JFK-NRT is ending
- Thread starter FWAAA
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I am pretty sure this was discussed last year as a possibility. At the time, they were talking about moving the extra flight to LAX or ORD flights to NRT. I think this was the plan all along. With so few slots under AA's control, they won't give up one of their 5 NRT slots. Time will tell.
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- #5
True, but the premise for opening HND to long-haul flights was that NRT was just too far away for all of the business travelers heading to/from Tokyo on business. Theoretically, if that premise is valid, the plane should be full of Tokyo O&D traffic and shouldn't have to rely on connecting feed to make it viable. But if connecting traffic is essential, then the Japanese have to change the restrictions that require the long-hauls to arrive and depart during the 10p - 7a timeframe.
Agreed. There are very few long-hauls from the USA to Haneda - you'd think they could simply choose the arrival departure time that made the most commercial sense.
I thought the same thing in 2006 when AA cancelled the SJC flight - I didn't think AA would just relinquish prime-time slots at NRT, but AA did. MAH4546 has been saying that MIA-NRT has been on the horizon for a while now - perhaps that will come to fruition?
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- #8
I think you're rght. At the time, there were additional USA frequencies available had AA applied for them, but I think you're right - the NRT landing slots had to go back in the pool. I think eolesen wrote about it at the time.
Now, of course, the USA and Japan have an open skies agreement, so anyone can fly any route (except HND) subject to obtaining airport slots. Dunno whether the JFK route's arrival and departure slots have to be relinquished or whether AA could fly from another gateway and use those slots. Also don't know whether there are NRT slots available for the asking right now.
Jacobin777
Senior
Since I live in the West Coast, it really won't be effecting me as I can fly NRT out of LAX. That being said, I wouldn't be too enthralled about this if I wanted to fly out of the East Coast.
Ostensibly it seems AA is trying to tap into the O&D market more than anything else. Will it succeed? I don't know, but I agree with the majority here, the flight times aren't too practical.
Ostensibly it seems AA is trying to tap into the O&D market more than anything else. Will it succeed? I don't know, but I agree with the majority here, the flight times aren't too practical.
I took the AA JFK-HND last May and was fairly impressed. Flight load was dismal, 70 people tips on plane. No more than five passengers in First, several appeared to be non-revs. Very convenient to get a full days work in NY, sleep on the flight then get to the hotel in Tokyo. Return was not So great timing, but still more convenient than Narita.
Josh
Josh
Jacobin777
Senior
Its bad in the sense of upgrades, etc. as well. AFAIK, one wouldn't be able to use SWU's on JL.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
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A loss of any route by AA or JL is a loss of presence in a key international region. AA's presence in Asia is so small that pulling back from any market will harm its financial performance in Asia overall.
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Those who want to argue that size has nothing to do with the ability to command market premiums should look at US carrier performance from DOT statistics. I can't post exact numbers because the data is not available to non-US citizens and this is an open format, but the much larger average fares that DL receives in the US-Japan market compared to AA and even UA is quite amazing - and DL's average fare is going up at the expense of UA to a lesser degree and AA to an even greater degree. I don't know what DL is doing but they are clearly pulling premium revenue over to them - and the majority of their Japan services are flown on aircraft with less modern cabins than most of the competition - although the fleet types that are most used for Japan flights are going through the upgrades this year.
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Of course some people will interpret my information as "uber-DL" but it would be more significant to ask the question as to how AA, even in partnership with JL, has not been able to keep up with the growth of fares in the market.
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When thinking through AA's strategic future, it is absolutely necessary to ask how AA will close its revenue gap in key markets such as Japan - and that same kind of story exists in other parts of AA's network as well.
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Those who want to argue that size has nothing to do with the ability to command market premiums should look at US carrier performance from DOT statistics. I can't post exact numbers because the data is not available to non-US citizens and this is an open format, but the much larger average fares that DL receives in the US-Japan market compared to AA and even UA is quite amazing - and DL's average fare is going up at the expense of UA to a lesser degree and AA to an even greater degree. I don't know what DL is doing but they are clearly pulling premium revenue over to them - and the majority of their Japan services are flown on aircraft with less modern cabins than most of the competition - although the fleet types that are most used for Japan flights are going through the upgrades this year.
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Of course some people will interpret my information as "uber-DL" but it would be more significant to ask the question as to how AA, even in partnership with JL, has not been able to keep up with the growth of fares in the market.
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When thinking through AA's strategic future, it is absolutely necessary to ask how AA will close its revenue gap in key markets such as Japan - and that same kind of story exists in other parts of AA's network as well.
Jacobin777
Senior
It could be a "calculated risk" AA is willing to take right now knowing that JL is serving NRT-JFK. It might help over-all yields for JL's NRT-JFK as well. AA down the road could very well try JFK-NRT again. There isn't anything stopping them.
