AA Giving back a NRT slot.

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IORFA

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Feb 7, 2003
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AA has decided that it should give back a NRT slot instead of flying it. This would be the JFK-NRT slot.

1. Can they do this when it is part of a package of slots around the world used as collateral for a large loan they are trying to bail on?

2. When the HND slots opened up, there was a cap placed on NRT slots for US carriers. Why allow UA and DL to bulk up when AA is already 3 of 3 in Japan and Asia?

3.Why not use it for additional lift to LAX or ORD. I.E. 3 or 4 flights a week to each. Maybe start a SFO flight for oneworld since JAL pulled out of SFO-NRT. I know they do SFO-HND, but could be done. Or re-enter SEA-NRT with some AS feed.

4. Let JAL cancel a NRT-HNL flight to allow AA do do it under the JBA and then JAL could add an NGO or KIK-HNL flight. I mean the Japanese really like Hawaii!

In the end this is another short sighted decision from AA. Who runs this place? Oh yeah, NOT AA. Multiple consulting compaines.
 

FWAAA

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Jan 5, 2003
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More slots become available at Narita next year, and US-based airlines are guaranteed about 11% of them. IIRC, the total NRT slot pool is expected to grow by about 40% next year. There should be plenty of slots for all applicants.

Is there a waiting list right now for NRT slots or are they on a "apply for them and get them" basis?

Is it possible that the new JAL Boston flight will use (borrow/lease/etc) AA's JFK slot? At LHR, for example, some of DL's flights utilize slots borrowed from DL's alliance partners AF and KL - I don't know if that is possible at NRT.
 

wings396

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Aug 20, 2002
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I thought the 777 could handle that run...
US had a shot at some Asia service a few years ago, but bailed due to high fuel costs along with a lack of an a/c to do the run....
 

FWAAA

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I thought the 777 could handle that run...
A 777-200 could get there, but everything I've read said that the weight restrictions would make the flight uneconomical. The 77W features about 200 miles of additional range, but I doubt that's enough to make it work. The 787-9 should have enough range if it actually delivers the range that Boeing has touted.
 

eolesen

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Jul 23, 2003
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Pretty certain there are some unused slots for US carriers. AA can't afford to be operating routes just to keep a slot. They're operating everything they can support for the time being, and JAL has the rest covered. All the money gets pooled and divided per a pro-ration formula regardless who sold the ticket or operated the flight. Don't ask me what the split is -- that's highly protected info in a JV.
 
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IORFA

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Feb 7, 2003
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I thought I read that US carriers were capped at their currrent % of flights when the HND slots were granted. I easily could be wrong. I understand how a JBA works, but thanks. Either way, they should at least use it for Hawaii, and if slots are available, then they can get different times if needed. In the end, dropping a flight, doesn't help our position in Asia. We could and should find a place to use the slot. I still think it is part of a slot portfolio used as collateral for a loan. What do the holders of that debt think if AA drops a flight and looses a slot and now has less leverage for repayment of said loan?
 

737823

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Jun 5, 2010
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I thought the 777 could handle that run...
US had a shot at some Asia service a few years ago, but bailed due to high fuel costs along with a lack of an a/c to do the run....

But USAir is a leading airline that provides superior in-flight service, state-of-the-art facilities and modern aircraft!

Seriously, it's great they fly to TLV but why not Narita (star alliance partner ANA homebase)? I'm not saying they should fly to all Star main hubs but Tokyo is a major established business market they should serve. Since CLT and PHL are great international markets they'll have no problem making the route a success with connections and O&D!

Josh
 

etops1

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Dec 6, 2003
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But USAir is a leading airline that provides superior in-flight service, state-of-the-art facilities and modern aircraft!

Seriously, it's great they fly to TLV but why not Narita (star alliance partner ANA homebase)? I'm not saying they should fly to all Star main hubs but Tokyo is a major established business market they should serve. Since CLT and PHL are great international markets they'll have no problem making the route a success with connections and O&D!

Josh
Listen , first of all we have very modern aircraft . The longest range aircraft we have is the A330-200 . We only have 7 of them so they are being utilized on TLV which requires 2 A/C , PHL-LHR, PHL -CDG, PHL-BCN,CLT-CDG and The second PHL -FRA. That's all 7 A330-200 commuted. We have 9 A330-300 which cannot fly PHL Asia nonstop . That is why we cannot fly to Asia. We have A330-200 deliveries coming in 2013 . Once we get those , then the possibility of Asia comes into play . We need to utilize the ac where it makes sense for an airline our size to use them . I doubt any Asia will come as more a330 come in because they will replace the 767's . You do not work for either airline nor know how airline economics or logistics work so just shut the f up . Just sayin .
 
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737823

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Listen , first of all we have very modern aircraft . The longest range aircraft we have is the A330-200 . We only have 7 of them so they are being utilized on TLV which requires 2 A/C , PHL-LHR, PHL -CDG, PHL-BCN,CLT-CDG and The second PHL -FRA. That's all 7 A330-200 commuted. We have 9 A330-300 which cannot fly PHL Asia nonstop . That is why we cannot fly to Asia. We have A330-200 deliveries coming in 2013 . Once we get those , then the possibility of Asia comes into play . We need to utilize the ac where it makes sense for an airline our size to use them . I doubt any Asia will come as more a330 come in because they will replace the 767's . You do not work for either airline nor know how airline economics or logistics work so just shut the f up . Just sayin .

Not sure I redeemed CO miles last year for my sister to fly PHL-TLV and she said the CO seat was better than US envoy suite. She didn't say anything about a brand new aircraft, I presume it was a newer aircraft though. I've only done BA, CO, LY and formerly TW but may try US.
 

etops1

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Dec 6, 2003
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Not sure I redeemed CO miles last year for my sister to fly PHL-TLV and she said the CO seat was better than US envoy suite. She didn't say anything about a brand new aircraft, I presume it was a newer aircraft though. I've only done BA, CO, LY and formerly TW but may try US.
Our A330 200 which we fly to TLV were delivered in 2009 for the launch of PHL-TLV what ever your sister said is a matter of opinion . We have a lie flat product on our A332 and now on our A333 . If you would go on our website and do some research you would know that . Our 330 are configured with 1-2-1 abreast in Envoy .
 
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FWAAA

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Jan 5, 2003
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I thought I read that US carriers were capped at their currrent % of flights when the HND slots were granted. I easily could be wrong. I understand how a JBA works, but thanks. Either way, they should at least use it for Hawaii, and if slots are available, then they can get different times if needed. In the end, dropping a flight, doesn't help our position in Asia. We could and should find a place to use the slot. I still think it is part of a slot portfolio used as collateral for a loan. What do the holders of that debt think if AA drops a flight and looses a slot and now has less leverage for repayment of said loan?
I may be wrong but I remember articles that talked about the 11% set-aside for US-based airlines from any new NRT slots (which will be available in 2013) as being less favorable to the US-based airlines since AA, UA, CO, DL and NW already had more than 11% of the existing slots. Put another way, the US-based airlines will get some new slots at NRT if they want them, but that US-based airline growth at NRT has been capped at a smaller percentage than will be given to other airlines, especially low-cost Asian regional airlines.

About the slots being collateral for the debt: Unlike LHR slots, that can be basically sold or leased, the Tokyo Narita slot allocation authority does not recognize any attempted sale or assignment of individual slots, so my guess is that the creditor who took that security interest is well aware that the NRT slots really aren't collateral. Lawyers for creditors often require borrowers to give security interests in everything the borrower has any interest in, even if the property cannot be assigned by the borrower.
 

BoeingBoy

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Nov 9, 2003
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Didn't AA move the JFK-NRT flight to JFK-HND not long ago? It looks to me like HND will become the business airport for Tokyo since it's quite a bit closer to downtown than NRT. Sorta like LGA is the businessman's NYC preferred airport for domestic, especially within the perimeter.

Jim
 
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