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[dc3fanatic]

Too many big words for you?

The post basically said you can't trust any stastics whatsoever. That's crap.

Businesses need to make decisions based on facts. Sure, stastics can be manipulated. No doubt. But you really think any business would be where it is without facts and stats?

You want make a credible post about stastics? Then tear apart the stastics that were posted. Just don't say all stastics are worthless, you loose credibility.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

You want make a credible post about stastics? Then tear apart the stastics that were posted. Just don't say all stastics are worthless, you loose credibility.

Okay, I'll start with the fact that NWA hasn't been "on the level" about their maintenance program since the strike began. Their characterization of operations has been "alittle" shy of genuine. Therefore their "statistics" are highly suspect.

 

[dc3fanatic]

Okay, I'll start with the fact that NWA hasn't been "on the level" about their maintenance program since the strike began. Their characterization of operations has been "alittle" shy of genuine. Therefore their "statistics" are highly suspect.

elaborate. I see generalizations, not facts.

 

[local 12 proud]

Businesses need to make decisions based on facts. Sure, stastics can be manipulated. No doubt. But you really think any business would be where it is without facts and stats?

Facts can't be changed, they are real occurences that are provable. Statistics are numerical datums that can be changed to hide the facts.

this makes your statement purely oxymoronic and reveals nothing tangible.

You want make a credible post about stastics? Then tear apart the stastics that were posted. Just don't say all stastics are worthless, you loose credibility.

...and I will say to you, prove the statistics are factual!

You can't because they are based on moveable boundry lines which can be manipulated to show the desired result...Period!

 

[dc3fanatic]

Facts can't be changed, they are real occurences that are provable. Statistics are numerical datums that can be changed to hide the facts.

this makes your statement purely oxymoronic and reveals nothing tangible.
...and I will say to you, prove the statistics are factual!

You can't because they are based on moveable boundry lines which can be manipulated to show the desired result...Period!

stats (hopefully) are built on facts. It's not oxymoronic. I'll admit, I can't prove the stats finman posted are based on fact (or manipulated) because I don't work for NWA or have access to the data (underlying facts).

The stat that finman posted is a descent stat if it includes all the appropriate data (read, doesn't exclude things it shouldn't . . . different data points excluded under different criteria . . .)

I think you want to dismiss it because you don't want it to be true. I usually need more than "I don't want it to be true, so it must be wrong and I will denounce all stats from the company."

If you choose not to believe ANYthing the company publishes, then there's not much point in debating.

 

[finman]

Well hotshot....
those stats still include AMFA worked months...

I'm not sure I understand your contention.

Including an AMFA worked month is entirely the purpose of the comparison. This is a one month YOY comparison, done so to equalize any seasonality and operational impacts that may skew comparitive results. By comparing delay rates, (rather than absolute delay totals), the effect of volume is also mitigated. The result is a true comparison of performance between the two mechanic workforces as it relates to mechanical delays.

To repeat, March 2005 figures were with AMFA mechanics fully employed, and March 2006 figures were with replacements.

Delays are assigned a delay code at the time of occurrence. As I stated, one could claim that coding criteria has changed to make the YOY comparison look better than it actually is. But, if that's the case, then why wouldn't NWA be touting these figures in press releases to counteract the AMFA drumbeat of an "unsafe and unreliable" airline? Also, what operating group is going to willingly be burdened with the delays that are coded away from Tech Ops? Every delay has to go somewhere, since the sum total of all of the system delays need to be accounted for via a delay code. Every operating group leadership team has to meet a targeted delay rate as part of their departmental goals, and no group would accept additional delays that don't belong to them just to make some internal(and unpublished) figures look good for Tech Ops.

 

[dc3fanatic]

I'm not sure I understand your contention.

Including an AMFA worked month is entirely the purpose of the comparison. This is a one month YOY comparison, done so to equalize any seasonality and operational impacts that may skew comparitive results. By comparing delay rates, (rather than absolute delay totals), the effect of volume is also mitigated. The result is a true comparison of performance between the two mechanic workforces as it relates to mechanical delays.

To repeat, March 2005 figures were with AMFA mechanics fully employed, and March 2006 figures were with replacements.

Delays are assigned a delay code at the time of occurrence. As I stated, one could claim that coding criteria has changed to make the YOY comparison look better than it actually is. But, if that's the case, then why wouldn't NWA be touting these figures in press releases to counteract the AMFA drumbeat of an "unsafe and unreliable" airline? Also, what operating group is going to willingly be burdened with the delays that are coded away from Tech Ops? Every delay has to go somewhere, since the sum total of all of the system delays need to be accounted for via a delay code. Every operating group leadership team has to meet a targeted delay rate as part of their departmental goals, and no group would accept additional delays that don't belong to them just to make some internal(and unpublished) figures look good for Tech Ops.

The comparison makes sense to me. AND I doubt the stats are being screwed with in order to make AMFA look bad . . . or the current ops to look good.

You can hate stats all you want (especially the ones that don't support your arguments), but that doesn't make them wrong or incorrect.

 

[Hackman]

The comparison makes sense to me. AND I doubt the stats are being screwed with in order to make AMFA look bad . . . or the current ops to look good.

You can hate stats all you want (especially the ones that don't support your arguments), but that doesn't make them wrong or incorrect.

I know during the picketing I participated in Scab Air flights that were cancelled and delayed were shown on the flight monitors at the terminal as on time, or fully deleted. Saw it myself, and also talked to those on the inside (read gate agents and ground grunts). If Scab Air was deleting flights and cancellations to prevent strikers from knowing the facts, what else have they done? Scab Air stats are nearly meaningless, since they did nothing but lie in the past, and nothing has changed.

Remember the Scab Air mantra......"its all flawless".

 

[groundcontrol]

I'm not sure I understand your contention.

Including an AMFA worked month is entirely the purpose of the comparison. This is a one month YOY comparison, done so to equalize any seasonality and operational impacts that may skew comparitive results. By comparing delay rates, (rather than absolute delay totals), the effect of volume is also mitigated. The result is a true comparison of performance between the two mechanic workforces as it relates to mechanical delays.

To repeat, March 2005 figures were with AMFA mechanics fully employed, and March 2006 figures were with replacements.

Delays are assigned a delay code at the time of occurrence. As I stated, one could claim that coding criteria has changed to make the YOY comparison look better than it actually is. But, if that's the case, then why wouldn't NWA be touting these figures in press releases to counteract the AMFA drumbeat of an "unsafe and unreliable" airline? Also, what operating group is going to willingly be burdened with the delays that are coded away from Tech Ops? Every delay has to go somewhere, since the sum total of all of the system delays need to be accounted for via a delay code. Every operating group leadership team has to meet a targeted delay rate as part of their departmental goals, and no group would accept additional delays that don't belong to them just to make some internal(and unpublished) figures look good for Tech Ops.

Dear Finman:
I'm just yanking your chain! 😉
Hey, I'm "just" a mechanic, a wrench turner, I could care less about STATS. You see, I am one of the exceptions to dc3fanatic's opinion that union mechanics don't (want to) work! I give 110% always have, always will. As far as I am concern, my stats are @ 100%.

Sorry to make you have to recount your beans, but you are so easily excitable. I can see how you love to use terms like: targets, goals, figures, codes, comparison, volume, performance, equalize...Sorry to say I could care less. You have a nice day though 🙂

 

[dc3fanatic]

I give 110% always have, always will.

cool.

 

[PlayTheOdds]

...I think you want to dismiss it because you don't want it to be true. I usually need more than "I don't want it to be true, so it must be wrong and I will denounce all stats from the company."

You do not know just how right you are here dc3fanatic. It doesn't even have to be stats from the company either any stats showing improvement in NWA operations are bogus stats to these guys. When Hackman was screaming "NWA IS DEAD LAST!!!" Then posted the DOT Stats to prove his point not one unionist said a word about them possibly being bogus stats. I myself couldn't contest the facts, I simply stated "The numbers will go up." I patiently waited for the following months stats where I was sure the numbers would go up then asked Hackman to post the current stats. Do you think he would? Hell no, he just insulted me and claimed he didn’t know what I was talking about and posted some riff-raff. I had to do it for him. Then when I posted them they were "Just a numbers game and meant nothing." If Stats do not support what the unionist want they will indeed denounce them in a heartbeat even if they had used the same source and stats to support a previous claim. Why don't you just ask Hackman for the current DOT Stats?

 

[robbedagain]

You do not know just how right you are here dc3fanatic. It doesn't even have to be stats from the company either any stats showing improvement in NWA operations are bogus stats to these guys. When Hackman was screaming "NWA IS DEAD LAST!!!" Then posted the DOT Stats to prove his point not one unionist said a word about them possibly being bogus stats. I myself couldn't contest the facts, I simply stated "The numbers will go up." I patiently waited for the following months stats where I was sure the numbers would go up then asked Hackman to post the current stats. Do you think he would? Hell no, he just insulted me and claimed he didn’t know what I was talking about and posted some riff-raff. I had to do it for him. Then when I posted them they were "Just a numbers game and meant nothing." If Stats do not support what the unionist want they will indeed denounce them in a heartbeat even if they had used the same source and stats to support a previous claim. Why don't you just ask Hackman for the current DOT Stats?

the numbers you posted were more than likely bogus and from another time era you know when AMFA was around. Too badd you dont know what the truth is

 

[PlayTheOdds]

the numbers you posted were more than likely bogus and from another time era you know when AMFA was around. Too badd you dont know what the truth is

Will you unionist please tell Robbed you do not need his help?

 

[local 12 proud]

If you choose not to believe ANYthing the company publishes, then there's not much point in debating.

Your right, there's not any point in debating when it comes to SCAB air. they have destroyed all trust and respect in regards to the frontline workers. however they still have the company lackeys who drink the koolaid and give unyielding support (bootlick) along with the SCABS., Oh and of course they have you, a wannabe!...

 

[robbedagain]

Will you unionist please tell Robbed you do not need his help?

why should they say something like that to me? It is very clear to us "unionst" that you need help