Kevin Tillmans letter

[Garfield1966]

Kevin Tillman's thoughts about the conflict that took his brother
After Pat's birthday
- Kevin Tillman
Tuesday, October 24, 2006
The SF Chronicle

(Editor's note: Kevin Tillman joined the Army with his brother, Pat Tillman, in 2002, and they served together in Iraq and Afghanistan. Pat was killed in Afghanistan on April 22, 2004. Kevin was discharged in 2005.)

It is Pat's birthday on Nov. 6, and elections are the day after. It gets me thinking about a conversation I had with Pat before we joined the military. He spoke about the risks with signing the papers. How, once we committed, we were at the mercy of the American leadership and the American people. How we could be thrown in a direction not of our volition. How fighting as a soldier would leave us without a voice ... until we got out.

Much has happened since we handed over our voice:

Somehow we were sent to invade a nation because it was a direct threat to the American people, or to the world, or harbored terrorists, or was involved in the Sept. 11 attacks, or received weapons-grade uranium from Niger, or had mobile weapons labs, or WMD, or had a need to be liberated, or we needed to establish a democracy, or stop an insurgency, or stop a civil war we created that can't be called a civil war even though it is. Something like that.

Somehow our elected leaders were subverting international law and humanity by setting up secret prisons around the world, secretly kidnapping people, secretly holding them indefinitely, secretly not charging them with anything, secretly torturing them. Somehow that overt policy of torture became the fault of a few "bad apples" in the military.

Somehow back at home, support for the soldiers meant having a 5-year-old kindergartener scribble a picture with crayons and send it overseas, or slapping bumper stickers on cars, or lobbying Congress for an extra pad in a helmet. It's interesting that a soldier on his third or fourth tour should care about a drawing from a 5-year-old; or a faded sticker on a car as his friends die around him; or an extra pad in a helmet, as if it will protect him when an IED throws his vehicle 50 feet into the air as his body comes apart and his skin melts to the seat.

Somehow the more soldiers that die, the more legitimate the illegal invasion becomes.

Somehow American leadership, whose only credit is lying to its people and illegally invading a nation, has been allowed to steal the courage, virtue and honor of its soldiers on the ground.

Somehow those afraid to fight an illegal invasion decades ago are allowed to send soldiers to die for an illegal invasion they started.

Somehow faking character, virtue and strength is tolerated.

Somehow profiting from tragedy and horror is tolerated.

Somehow the death of tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of people is tolerated.

Somehow subversion of the Bill of Rights and the U.S. Constitution is tolerated.

Somehow suspension of habeas corpus is supposed to keep this country safe.

Somehow torture is tolerated.

Somehow lying is tolerated.

Somehow reason is being discarded for faith, dogma and nonsense.

Somehow American leadership managed to create a more dangerous world.

Somehow a narrative is more important than reality.

Somehow America has become a country that projects everything that it is not and condemns everything that it is.

Somehow the most reasonable, trusted and respected country in the world has become one of the most irrational, belligerent, feared and distrusted countries in the world.

Somehow being politically informed, diligent and skeptical has been replaced by apathy through active ignorance.

Somehow the same incompetent, narcissistic, virtueless, vacuous, malicious criminals are still in charge of this country.

Somehow this is tolerated.

Somehow nobody is accountable for this.

In a democracy, the policy of the leaders is the policy of the people. So don't be shocked when our grandkids bury much of this generation as traitors to the nation, to the world and to humanity. Most likely, they will come to know that "somehow" was nurtured by fear, insecurity and indifference, leaving the country vulnerable to unchecked, unchallenged parasites.

Luckily this country is still a democracy. People still have a voice. People still can take action. It can start after Pat's birthday.

 

[local 12 proud]

Im sorry for the Tillman family loss as I am for all our brave Men and Women who paid the Ultimate price, However Im thankful for them because 'Freedom is'nt Free' and they value liberty above life. We have an all volunteer armed forces , these soldiers know the risk yet are willing to lay down their lives for family and country, the stakes are high, some will die, but just remember this if not for the blood of patriots we would have never become The United States Of America with the liberties we all cherish.

 

[Ch. 12]

Im sorry for the Tillman family loss as I am for all our brave Men and Women who paid the Ultimate price, However Im thankful for them because 'Freedom is'nt Free' and they value liberty above life. We have an all volunteer armed forces , these soldiers know the risk yet are willing to lay down their lives for family and country, the stakes are high, some will die, but just remember this if not for the blood of patriots we would have never become The United States Of America with the liberties we all cherish.

Tillman wasn't referring to the troops...he was referring to their commanders (above the generals) who run the show in a dishonest fashion and who do not have any understanding what serving is about. I agree with you...our soldiers are the finest and deserve all the praise we can give them...but their leadership is abominable. THAT is what Tillman pointed out so I'm not sure what your post was meant to do other than divert from the message.

 

[700IAM]

Tillman wasn't referring to the troops...he was referring to their commanders (above the generals) who run the show in a dishonest fashion and who do not have any understanding what serving is about. I agree with you...our soldiers are the finest and deserve all the praise we can give them...but their leadership is abominable. THAT is what Tillman pointed out so I'm not sure what your post was meant to do other than divert from the message.

So the likes of Hillary or some other leftist freak whack job would have saved this guy's brother?

I can write a poem too and have, don't see you crying over them like this one that was taken to the leftist shine of worship to spread the pain around evenly.

 

[KCFlyer]

Im sorry for the Tillman family loss as I am for all our brave Men and Women who paid the Ultimate price, However Im thankful for them because 'Freedom is'nt Free' and they value liberty above life. We have an all volunteer armed forces , these soldiers know the risk yet are willing to lay down their lives for family and country, the stakes are high, some will die, but just remember this if not for the blood of patriots we would have never become The United States Of America with the liberties we all cherish.

I have nothing but respect for our soldiers, but I do not see how their mission in Iraq is protecting my liberties in any way. While they are risking their lives every day in Iraq, their commander in chief is taking away our liberties in the form of such things as the patriot act. As our freedoms are eroded in the name of "security". I sometimes wonder about what our forefathers, who really did fight and die for our liberties would think if they saw how we are willingly letting the government take our liberties away.

 

[local 12 proud]

Well perhaps come Novemebr you along with the Muslims will get your wish, and when we have a visitation on a weekly basis like Israel gets to constantly who will you blame then?

Oh thats right we won't, because like the French appeasers we will accomadate the 'Religion Of Peace' for the sake of security.

Funny thing is, the passivity of the French Government is'nt working out so well for them as of late.
http://www.debka.com/article.php?aid=1107

 

[KCFlyer]

Well perhaps come Novemebr you along with the Muslims will get your wish, and when we have a visitation on a weekly basis like Israel gets to constantly who will you blame then?

Oh thats right we won't, because like the French appeasers we will accomadate the 'Religion Of Peace' for the sake of security.

Funny thing is, the passivity of the French Government is'nt working out so well for them as of late.
http://www.debka.com/article.php?aid=1107

local...we WERE fighting the terrorists in Afghanistan. We ALMOST had the guy who planned the attack on the US. We HAD the entire world behind us in this endevour. Our troops WERE fighting for the US there. Then, GW got a hard on over Saddam and decided that BEFORE we teach the terrorists that attacked us a lesson, we needed to take out this threat...who had nothing to do with the attack on the US...So we "cut and run" from Afghanistan and let bin laden go. And in doing so, we turned this war from one against a terrorist sect into one against an entire religion. Just look at you.

Yeah...I know "Clinton was offered bin laden twice and turned it down". But you know something - Bush had bin laden cornered and let him go. And that's just as bad as what Clinton did. Now we're involved in a war in a country that had nothing to do with attacking the US...a country that was perhaps the weakest in the "axis of evil" that our decider has identified...and now we're bogged down there while REAL threats abound.

And if we have a "visitation on a weekly basis" - it might be because we've spent a mere pittance on securing our borders and ports. Imagine what we could have done with the money that we are wasting every week on this war.

 

[Ch. 12]

So the likes of Hillary or some other leftist freak whack job would have saved this guy's brother?

I can write a poem too and have, don't see you crying over them like this one that was taken to the leftist shine of worship to spread the pain around evenly.

This isn't even coherent. Did you spike the holy water again?

 

[Leto2]

I have nothing but respect for our soldiers, but I do not see how their mission in Iraq is protecting my liberties in any way. While they are risking their lives every day in Iraq, their commander in chief is taking away our liberties in the form of such things as the patriot act. As our freedoms are eroded in the name of "security". I sometimes wonder about what our forefathers, who really did fight and die for our liberties would think if they saw how we are willingly letting the government take our liberties away.

What freedom or liberty have you lost KCFlyer? I haven't lost any.

I'm sorry that people like Kevin Tillman and Cindy Sheehan have lost loved ones, but I think it's ridiculous that they use their deaths (which resulted from fighting for a cause they believed in) to push an agenda.

 

[KCFlyer]

What freedom or liberty have you lost KCFlyer? I haven't lost any.

I'm sorry that people like Kevin Tillman and Cindy Sheehan have lost loved ones, but I think it's ridiculous that they use their deaths (which resulted from fighting for a cause they believed in) to push an agenda.

Read the constitution, then read the patriot act. Then look at what I'm sure you will call an "activist judge" ruled as unconstitutional. Have you been spied on? Who knows. The constitution says you have a RIGHT to know. Knock down that right, and you've just started trampling on your constitutional rights. Who knows...if the next terrorist attack involves handguns, would you have a problem if the president deemed it illegal for you to own a gun? There's the problem....when you crack the door for eliminating one set of rights, you crack the door for every other right to be violated.

Would you like to have President Bush point to you and say "enemy", then ship your ass off to Gitmo, and you don't have any right to even try to defend yourself? He's got the right to do that...and you don't have the right to defend or dispute it.

I know you guys on the right hate to have anyone compare your beloved Bush to Hitler, but you know, Hitler had a similar power...he chose to point to every Jew and say "enemy" and send them off. One beauty of our country was that our leader would never possess THAT much power. At least...it USED to be that way.

 

[Leto2]

Read the constitution, then read the patriot act. Then look at what I'm sure you will call an "activist judge" ruled as unconstitutional. Have you been spied on? Who knows. The constitution says you have a RIGHT to know. Knock down that right, and you've just started trampling on your constitutional rights. Who knows...if the next terrorist attack involves handguns, would you have a problem if the president deemed it illegal for you to own a gun? There's the problem....when you crack the door for eliminating one set of rights, you crack the door for every other right to be violated.

Would you like to have President Bush point to you and say "enemy", then ship your ass off to Gitmo, and you don't have any right to even try to defend yourself? He's got the right to do that...and you don't have the right to defend or dispute it.

I know you guys on the right hate to have anyone compare your beloved Bush to Hitler, but you know, Hitler had a similar power...he chose to point to every Jew and say "enemy" and send them off. One beauty of our country was that our leader would never possess THAT much power. At least...it USED to be that way.

You didn't answer my question KCFlyer. I asked what liberties have YOU lost? You know you haven't been wire tapped unless you've made an overseas call to a terrorist.

 

[KCFlyer]

You didn't answer my question KCFlyer. I asked what liberties have YOU lost? You know you haven't been wire tapped unless you've made an overseas call to a terrorist.

Leto...if Congress passed a law that said that they could confiscate your guns for any reason and at any time they wanted, would you object to it? I mean...they haven't taken your guns...yet...but they would have the RIGHT to do so. Would you lie down and let them give someone the power to do that? Answer honestly. Right now you have the RIGHT to bear arms...but what if that was amended to say that the government has the RIGHT to take them away...for whatever reason they want. Do you want your government to wield that kind of power

Because that's what we are doing for Bush...give him the power...for any reason...to deem someone an "enemy"...with no proof...just his word...and don't give him an opportunity to defend himself....That cracks open a door that permits the government to legally trample my (and your) constitutional rights in the name of "security".

And don't forget...since these were passed, it's there for future presidents. ...what happens if that kind of power falls into the hands of a *gasp* liberal?

 

[Garfield1966]

What freedom or liberty have you lost KCFlyer? I haven't lost any.

I'm sorry that people like Kevin Tillman and Cindy Sheehan have lost loved ones, but I think it's ridiculous that they use their deaths (which resulted from fighting for a cause they believed in) to push an agenda.

Leto,

I think that argument is hollow. Just because I personally may or may not have lost any rights does not mean that rights have not been lost. I have not experienced racism, sexism, homophobia, and any other number of ‘isms but that does not mean that they do not exist. Peoples rights have been compromised and if one persons rights can be compromised "legally" by the law, then we are all at risk.

It reminds me of Nancy Reagan. She was not concerned about stem cell research until her husband was affected by a disease that potentially could be cured by the research. The time to be concerned about something is before it affects you, not after.

As far as Tillman is concerned, it would appear that if the letter is authentic, the Tillmans were not fighting for what they signed up for. At least according to Kevin, he feels betrayed by the leaders and to a degree by the people.
cts you, not after.

 

[Leto2]

Leto...if Congress passed a law that said that they could confiscate your guns for any reason and at any time they wanted, would you object to it? I mean...they haven't taken your guns...yet...but they would have the RIGHT to do so. Would you lie down and let them give someone the power to do that? Answer honestly. Right now you have the RIGHT to bear arms...but what if that was amended to say that the government has the RIGHT to take them away...for whatever reason they want. Do you want your government to wield that kind of power

Because that's what we are doing for Bush...give him the power...for any reason...to deem someone an "enemy"...with no proof...just his word...and don't give him an opportunity to defend himself....That cracks open a door that permits the government to legally trample my (and your) constitutional rights in the name of "security".

And don't forget...since these were passed, it's there for future presidents. ...what happens if that kind of power falls into the hands of a *gasp* liberal?

You still haven't answered my question.

In any case, I think what you have written is a false analogy. The president won't ever deem me an "enemy". I am not involved in anything that would ever lead to his doing so. I have enough faith in the government to believe that they won't ever deem anyone else an enemy unless there is substantial reason to do so. I would still believe that even if a "*gasp* liberal" were president. I think that if the government ever started deeming people enemies without reason the law would be changed and that would be that.
No I wouldn't let the government take away a gun for whatever reason they want, but I would consider a bill that would allow the government to take away handguns from people they believe are terrorists--this is the proper comparison.

As far as handguns go, there are already laws about who can have a handgun and how it must be carried, etc. So I ask you, have our liberties already been encroached upon? Did Congress go to far back when they passed the Brady Bill? Since America didn't like the Brady Bill, it expired and wasn't renewed. Where was the ACLU when the Brady Bill was passed and my rights were trampled?

 

[KCFlyer]

You still haven't answered my question.

In any case, I think what you have written is a false analogy. The president won't ever deem me an "enemy". I am not involved in anything that would ever lead to his doing so. I have enough faith in the government to believe that they won't ever deem anyone else an enemy unless there is substantial reason to do so. I would still believe that even if a "*gasp* liberal" were president. I think that if the government ever started deeming people enemies without reason the law would be changed and that would be that.

What if your well intentioned government makes a mistake? What if that mistake happens to involve you? Because they JUST PASSED a law that gives Bush the power to do exactly that...and if he makes a mistake, it's your problem - not his. And remember...we are in the middle of a war in Iraq based in large part on "mistaken intelligence".