line vs o/h issues

[paul1]

ok I work the line. what I would like to find out. what are some of the issues that are dividing some line stations from the overhaul stations on trying to get a contract worked, or aleast what issues are most important and clear up some rumors

one rumor I would like some feed back on is it true that overhaul doesn't want a 24/7 operation. I personally think this would be good as the company would be able to bring more work in and hopefully employee some more people hopefully. I don't think most people on the current payroll would ever wind up on the grave yard shift. all thou on the line most guys already work the 3rd shift all the time.

2nd rumor overhaul doesn't think we should get a large prem. for working the line stations even knowing that the time constraints and the different weather and working conditions most of us have to put up with everyday working on the line has to account for some thing and working all hoildays and weekends with rotating shifts

I hope the next time are local prez. get together in oct they stay in a room untill they can all come to agreement on a sensible contract. This most likely won't happen.

 

[Duke787]

It seems like the only thing that is going to happen is that, every president is going after his own pet project. i hope that the line stations don't give up anything to preserve TUL life style.

Overhaul mechs want line pay, transfer to a line station. Don't take from us to give to overhaul. I say separate contracts for line and OH, and TUL can have their FSC negotiate their contract. We hear at ORD that 514 president wants to start all over.

 

[787nightmare]

I've worked both line/OH extensively. And I can tell you, line maint(esp on mids at a major hub)deserves FAR more than they are currently getting. This BS of chump change premiums for nights(sleep deprivation city!)working out in the cold and hot wx, rain, signing for all kinds of task cards/component changes is a fricken joke for the so called "line premium" vs what an OH AMT does in the comfort of a hangar. Everyone here knows the bulk of the hard hitting maint occurs on the line on mids(incl out of svc hgrs)to keep those a/c flying.
Next to get changed should be the mids shift diff. Another joke. Though not the same pace/wkload for OH vs the line, anybody that's honest and worked both, knows good and well what I'm talking about here...
This is LONG overdue.

 

[Rogallo]

I hope that the line stations don't give up anything to preserve TUL life style.

The line can't do anything about it. The company will throw a bone at the overhaul guys and the next contract will pass. IGM Brother!!!

 

[bravozulu@afw]

Enuf Already! Line and O/H AMTs are in the same sinking boat, AMR. The new director of maint, Mr Reams, who came from another carrier, has a KNOWN REPUTATION for OUTSOURCING (O/H) MAINTENANCE!!!

The reason we, at AFW & TULE, are screaming for NON-SEPARATION of task identities, is to PROTECT OUR JOBS!! If AMR starts sinking, O/H is going to be spun-off faster than a dropping jaw! Ben Franklin said " If we don't stand TOGETHER, then we will surely hang separately!"

IMHO, over 60% of the AMTs at AFW, came from a LINE station. We do NOT want a 7 day operation. That is why they left the LINE! Everyone remembers the last 4/10 schedule 7 day experiment, either an AMT had to work a SATURDAY(WED TO SAT), or a SUNDAY( SUN TO WED). VERY FEW AMTs were allowed to stay on the 5/8 schedule.

IN CONCLUSION: LET US STAND TOGETHER, STEADFAST, SHOULDER TO SHOULDER, WAVING THE 2001 CONTRACT IN HAND!!

 

[Hopeful]

Enuf Already! Line and O/H AMTs are in the same sinking boat, AMR. The new director of maint, Mr Reams, who came from another carrier, has a KNOWN REPUTATION for OUTSOURCING (O/H) MAINTENANCE!!!

Yes, we are in the same boat. But the reality of it all is that historically TULE was able to carry a contract vote easily with its shear numbers. Contracts have been tailored to address TULE issues favorably over line issues.
How many times have many of us heard "IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, MOVE TO TULSA."

I am not advocating having OH get screwed, but over many decades, the opposite has sometimes applied.

Stand Together!

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

This horse has been beaten too many times. There is no answer. We each want different contracts for the different working conditions. You cant give two entirely different operations the same thing in different parts of the country. Especially where the majority has a lower cost of living. This last contract at least gave us a "Line Premium" not enough but a step in the right direction. Are seperate contracts the answer? I dont know but I do know it would create a pay disparity. They should take the lowest cost of living area put a dollar amount on it and use the government COLA chart to pay the respective stations an increase. This way the lower paid stations could blame the governments COLA chart for their lack of pay and not the line stations. 😀

 

[Deleted member 14439]

So now the company has what it wants.Line vs overhaul fighting to distract us from negotiations. I`m an overhal AMT, have been at AFW since 1994 and tulsa prior to that. Line guys should get some kind of premium for working in adverse wx conditions, lots of taxi time a HUGE responsibility and 24/7/365. Now with that being said here is the overhaul AMT at AFWs perspective. The huge disparate in pay with the REJECTED t/a just does not fly. When the line pulls an airplane ots and can`t fix it what happens? Field trip from one of the bases or it is ferried to us. If that t/a or anything like it were to go thru you would see afw names dropping off the field trip list. TCCs already stated they would be among the first to pull their names.
Overhaul is a different animal for sure. We have work to be done during the entire shift, every shift. No down time, no cushy breakrooms or a weight room (dfw). Personally from a business perspective I see the bases as 24/7 making sense. HOWEVER the company will not hire the extra heads needed. They most certainly would fall back to fri/sat or sun/mon off. Overtime eliminated and no extra headcount. I also can`t see them staffing engineering, support shops et al to support us.
The day to day grind in overhaul is no differnt than what a line amt has to deal with. Our numbers are down, tooling a joke and we are moved aroound at will in the hangar. When I left work yesterday we had 4 airplanes our crew was/is working. 4 airplanes for one dock not the entire hangar. We are on our 3rd gear change in as many airplanes. Found what appears to be another cracked pylon so that is being worked. In addition we had several AMTs this week in Santiago to replace a slat. See my point? We are always on the go in overhaul. no downtime between complexes, no cruising the terminals etc. I could go on and on but bottom line is WE must stick together.

 

[Hopeful]

At some point, AA will have to begin hiring. There are retirements and resignations occurring all the time. But until AA gets a contract to their liking, expect to work shorthanded and break their OT budget.

 

[Deleted member 14439]

The last aircraft we had roll in the dock was in for 12 days. My job, landing gear change no problem. When it came time to install the gear guess how many inspectors were assigned? ONE!!! He had to cover the slat bolt inspection, landing gear installation and whatever else came up. In addition he was running between 2 docks. We asked if they had guys out sick or what was the deal, nobody out they were just working the entire hangar and drop ins on the ramp. I lost an entire shift because we had no QA. The next day same thing so we put our tools down and held our supervisors feet to the fire to get us some help. My buddies in QA told me they needed at least 10 more heads. The manager for that department cold not make that call. He had to submit a request thru his boss in tulsa and then he only asked for 8 heads. It`s this kind of thing that drives me up the wall when I am constantly told "we need to be more productive".....End of rant

 

[Duke787]

Enuf Already! Line and O/H AMTs are in the same sinking boat, AMR. The new director of maint, Mr Reams, who came from another carrier, has a KNOWN REPUTATION for OUTSOURCING (O/H) MAINTENANCE!!!

The reason we, at AFW & TULE, are screaming for NON-SEPARATION of task identities, is to PROTECT OUR JOBS!! If AMR starts sinking, O/H is going to be spun-off faster than a dropping jaw! Ben Franklin said " If we don't stand TOGETHER, then we will surely hang separately!"

IMHO, over 60% of the AMTs at AFW, came from a LINE station. We do NOT want a 7 day operation. That is why they left the LINE! Everyone remembers the last 4/10 schedule 7 day experiment, either an AMT had to work a SATURDAY(WED TO SAT), or a SUNDAY( SUN TO WED). VERY FEW AMTs were allowed to stay on the 5/8 schedule.

IN CONCLUSION: LET US STAND TOGETHER, STEADFAST, SHOULDER TO SHOULDER, WAVING THE 2001 CONTRACT IN HAND!!

It sounds like your major priority is to keep your days and weekends off, my priority is to get a pay raise. I do NOT want to give up anything so you can keep weekends off. I understand how you have developed a life style that is family friendly, I'm trying to support my family at a station that has a high cost of living. All the line stations outside of Texas are expensive areas to live, and we are not keeping up with inflation. I'm surprised you guys don't remember that. I'm sure it's more the case of hurray for me I got mine!!!

Oh ya lets all stick together, so I can have weekends off.

I say separate contracts let the line get paid what they're worth and let OH get paid what they're worth. If OH wants to give up pay for weekends so be it, but don't take from me to give to them, this is not a welfare company. You sound like those TWU guys that say "a loaf of bread cost the same for a FSC as it does for a mech". Well it doesn't, it cost more at NY, LA, and Chicago.

 

[Vortilon]

It sounds like your major priority is to keep your days and weekends off, my priority is to get a pay raise. I do NOT want to give up anything so you can keep weekends off. I understand how you have developed a life style that is family friendly, I'm trying to support my family at a station that has a high cost of living. All the line stations outside of Texas are expensive areas to live, and we are not keeping up with inflation. I'm surprised you guys don't remember that. I'm sure it's more the case of hurray for me I got mine!!!

Oh ya lets all stick together, so I can have weekends off.

I say separate contracts let the line get paid what they're worth and let OH get paid what they're worth. If OH wants to give up pay for weekends so be it, but don't take from me to give to them, this is not a welfare company. You sound like those TWU guys that say "a loaf of bread cost the same for a FSC as it does for a mech". Well it doesn't, it cost more at NY, LA, and Chicago.

It gets worse, those "no cap premiums" you're paying for health care coverage - at twice the amount the F/As & Pilots pay, are going to subsidize the P/T baggage handlers identical benefits. There's part of that socialist loaf of bread you speak of. 😉

 

[Bob Owens]

It gets worse, those "no cap premiums" you're paying for health care coverage - at twice the amount the F/As & Pilots pay, are going to subsidize the P/T baggage handlers identical benefits. There's part of that socialist loaf of bread you speak of. 😉

Wrong, it subsidizes the company.

The Union never asked for Part timers to be put in the contract, we (M&R) asked to have the language removed back in 2003, since after all negotiations are give and take, but both the International and the company refused to consider it, the company won PT it as a concession. The company uses the lure of health benifits to get people willing to work PT, they get cheap labor and save billions while passing the costs of the lure onto us. Its not Socialist, its Capitalism at its finest.

The company would be more resistant in taking Medical away from Part timers than the union. They get the best of both, cheap labor and they make us pay for it!

 

[Duke787]

So now the company has what it wants.Line vs overhaul fighting to distract us from negotiations. I`m an overhal AMT, have been at AFW since 1994 and tulsa prior to that. Line guys should get some kind of premium for working in adverse wx conditions, lots of taxi time a HUGE responsibility and 24/7/365. Now with that being said here is the overhaul AMT at AFWs perspective. The huge disparate in pay with the REJECTED t/a just does not fly. When the line pulls an airplane ots and can`t fix it what happens? Field trip from one of the bases or it is ferried to us. If that t/a or anything like it were to go thru you would see afw names dropping off the field trip list. TCCs already stated they would be among the first to pull their names.
Overhaul is a different animal for sure. We have work to be done during the entire shift, every shift. No down time, no cushy breakrooms or a weight room (dfw). Personally from a business perspective I see the bases as 24/7 making sense. HOWEVER the company will not hire the extra heads needed. They most certainly would fall back to fri/sat or sun/mon off. Overtime eliminated and no extra headcount. I also can`t see them staffing engineering, support shops et al to support us.
The day to day grind in overhaul is no differnt than what a line amt has to deal with. Our numbers are down, tooling a joke and we are moved aroound at will in the hangar. When I left work yesterday we had 4 airplanes our crew was/is working. 4 airplanes for one dock not the entire hangar. We are on our 3rd gear change in as many airplanes. Found what appears to be another cracked pylon so that is being worked. In addition we had several AMTs this week in Santiago to replace a slat. See my point? We are always on the go in overhaul. no downtime between complexes, no cruising the terminals etc. I could go on and on but bottom line is WE must stick together.

I don't think line guys should get more money for working in the wx or 24/7/365, we knew the deal when we hired on, nor do I think the OH responsibility is any less then a line mech's. What I'm trying to convey is that we ALL should not be getting less so that TUL/AFW can have weekends off. OH mechs might disagree with that. That is why we need to separate line and OH, their priority is not my priority. AA is a 24/7 operation, it doesn't make any sense to keep A/C sitting idle every weekend. Now if you are going to say we do 6th days and 7th days on the weekends to get the A/C back into service. Explain why the line guys should give up pay so OH can keep their OT deal. I certainly wouldn't expect OH to take anything less so we can keep our weight rooms (non contract issue, just management working with us, bought with our own money, AA spent nothing).

As far as you thinking we "can't fix" a OTS plane, it's just that you might be very proficient, and will fix the a/c quicker then we would when working on landing gear, or the flight control guys are better at rigging a flight control, etc..........I'm sure you can troubleshoot an EFIS fault on a s80 then work a hyd ind problem on a 767 then work a batt charger fault on a 777. Then the biggest problem of them all headrest on a 777 first class seat....etc..........you probably couldn't do it as efficient as I can.

As far as AFW guys not doing field trips they will after a while, the money is just to good to pass on after a while. We decided to turn down field trips at ORD, then AA just sent DFW mechs. If you turn down a rig field trip, AA will just contract Boeing to do it. AA will not allow for a plane to sit idle for too long.

If AA doesn't hire more mechs to cover a 24/7 operation or get the work done in a timely manner, that's managements issue. I have more to say, but this seems to be enough for now, I have to get ready for work. Enjoy your Saturday and Sunday hog.

 

[Deleted member 14439]

I don't think line guys should get more money for working in the wx or 24/7/365, we knew the deal when we hired on, nor do I think the OH responsibility is any less then a line mech's. What I'm trying to convey is that we ALL should not be getting less so that TUL/AFW can have weekends off. OH mechs might disagree with that. That is why we need to separate line and OH, their priority is not my priority. AA is a 24/7 operation, it doesn't make any sense to keep A/C sitting idle every weekend. Now if you are going to say we do 6th days and 7th days on the weekends to get the A/C back into service. Explain why the line guys should give up pay so OH can keep their OT deal. I certainly wouldn't expect OH to take anything less so we can keep our weight rooms (non contract issue, just management working with us, bought with our own money, AA spent nothing).

As far as you thinking we "can't fix" a OTS plane, it's just that you might be very proficient, and will fix the a/c quicker then we would when working on landing gear, or the flight control guys are better at rigging a flight control, etc..........I'm sure you can troubleshoot an EFIS fault on a s80 then work a hyd ind problem on a 767 then work a batt charger fault on a 777. Then the biggest problem of them all headrest on a 777 first class seat....etc..........you probably couldn't do it as efficient as I can.

As far as AFW guys not doing field trips they will after a while, the money is just to good to pass on after a while. We decided to turn down field trips at ORD, then AA just sent DFW mechs. If you turn down a rig field trip, AA will just contract Boeing to do it. AA will not allow for a plane to sit idle for too long.

If AA doesn't hire more mechs to cover a 24/7 operation or get the work done in a timely manner, that's managements issue. I have more to say, but this seems to be enough for now, I have to get ready for work. Enjoy your Saturday and Sunday hog.

I am enjoying my sat/sun thank you. The point is the disparate pay proposed was divisive. Personally I think if the company wants 24/7 at the bases then thats fine by me. Hire some more AMTs, run the thing as a line 24/7 and let us bid just as the line does. We do not expect the line to give up anything at our expense. The same can be said for us. Why should I work for less than a line AMT?