Longline Vs Shortline

[RDM]

CM...

The guy in the middle is not JBC! If you look closely the indivdual in the photo has long flowing hair, our beloved JBC is rather shy in that department, otherwise pretty much the same type of person, that is when he was not jumping up and down firing us all on a daily basis. 🙄 🙄 🙄

 

[skullcap]

Sorry, have not read this article as detest that mag, but to maybe be devil's advocate for a moment(forever ha ha).

VR while lifting a log do you not sometimes move forward before the log has completely come free of the ground, from the pilots I know they will move forward some to ease the lift. I would say that they know the load is within limits and are trying to make the lift smoother. Perhaps this is what KA was trying to say rather than slingshotting, or wanatchee snatch the load which is rather stupid(backup and take a run at it and hope it comes free).

Plus the spinning takeoff is a good way to get dead, suprised that that part of the article didn't bring up more disgust that the longline thing. I worked beside a fella who did this on a regular basis to outperform my 1950 lb JR2 with his 1800 lb JR3, the friggin idiot just about came to a bitter end when he couldn't stop the right rotation until at about 200' (remember a JR3 t/r and only at 2000') and he thought he was making me look silly, too late I already am. But that said there is nothing wrong with having a left crab on takeoff and squeeeeezing off a bit of right pedal so she goes straight and lets the Q meter go down a tad.

I am not condoning what the article said in fact the opposite as have not appreciated any of his info for years. Just trying to clerify some of the things that go on and could be misleading to the new or uninformed.

sc

 

[407 Driver]

Skull, the author explains the classic slingshot pick, not just a pick-one-end of-a-log on a steep block routine.
I say that there's not much difference between a JRII and a JRIII unless you get up over 8,000'. Back in my JR days (Yea, all 20+ years of them !) I would use the 90 degree right turn into wind on departure, it gave just a few % more Q's to get through Translational lift.

The slingshot method...never used it, except for that one time at Assiniboine Lodge in '81 with that dead horse...well, we all do stupid things and one of us was already dead 🙁 :down:

 

[100ft]

sorry 'bout this but....Is that a spinning takeoff the Canucks are using there? I know, I shouldn't yap.

 

[407 Driver]

Hmmm, Right, The Edmonton Oilers, weren't they an NHL team once? Whatever happened to them?
😀 😀

 

[VERTICAL REF]

Skully,

A simplified verson,

Its called "launching the turn" and is done by backing the helicopter up or moving forward (depending on the logs orientation to the landing!) to stand the log(s) up on end, as 407 correctly stated. Once the log is up and flying (and you are still directly over the log!) the deflection of the hill is used and you start your descent to the landing. This all happens in a few short seconds but is a very positive, smooth fluid motion using momentum to aid in the lift NOT translational lift as suggested. This allow torque, load scale, log and helo to all be under control!

Not the "clean and jerk" slingshotting method described. To back up and accelerate a log or any load still in contact with the ground, roll over the top and head for a spot is pure suicide, ripping the hook and pylon assembly out at the very least! He states to get translational lift to help lift the load....last I checked translation was at 15 to 20 mph. To back up and reach 15 mph then hope everything will become airborne is sheer stupidity and would certainly not be done with an aircraft I owned a bolt in!

This momentum and deflection are the reason you can lift a very heavy log a lot easier and with less power and pilot skill than required to move a standard weight drill... 😉 😉

My recommendation to the newer fellas is DO NOT even experiment with the two published techniques! Cause this is where the "dead horse" stories originate from.

Sounds like a good one 4 ho 7. 😉

 

[VERTICAL REF]

Almost forgot, ol' Owl Eagle, Downwash has lauched a turn or two in the past, and might be able to explain things a little clearer / better etc.

 

[jetbox]

I still don't understand how any editor with any kind of helicopter knowledge could let this kind of an article make it into his magazine!!!! 😱 😱 😱 😱
It just makes the publication lose a whole lot of credibility :down:

 

[Albert Ross]

That article made the rounds before it ended up there. Nobody else would touch it

Phil

 

[Vertical Mag]

The article was originally sent to me four months ago, I turned it down, voiced the concerns that I had with it, but the author wouldn't listen.

 

[Flinger]

And what about what must have surely been their biggest selling point... Geoff Goodyear's article? It was missing too.

Anyone know if this is permanent?

 

[firehawk]

Hey 407, Have you had a chance to operate that 407 in +40 degrees c yet?
I hope she can work in those temps and can lift more then 100 gallons of water in that bucket.
The boys are sending me south to Arizona.

 

[cyclic monkey]

Hey 'Hawk, I hope you'll have that bucket on a long-line..........especially in Arizona.
Remember that some folks down there like to shoot at Bambi Buckets !!
If that's not a good reason to be 150' from your bucket, then what is ????

 

[407 Driver]

Do you have an External "Check Instrument" light installed? I'd be whining to the big guy to get one ...cause you're MGT is going to be flashing on every takeoff !

I have only operated into the mid 30's C here, that's a cool day for AZ !

Last summer, at 25C+/-, 5500 ASL, 750 lb fuel (1.7 hrs), The old gal was still lifting an 80% bucket (180 Imp Bambi X .8 = 144 Imp = 1440 lbs + 75 for the bucket + 50 for the LONG line = 1,565 lbs).


Warning, the preceeding was done during controlled conditions by a trained professional :blink: , do not try this at home with your B2.

My memory may not be exact on those figures, plus there's always up to a 10% fib factor...you know further-faster-higher pilot talk ???

 

[MagSeal]

So a B3 would do it then?