Longline Vs Shortline
- Thread starter 407 Driver
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cyclic monkey
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Wouldn't this be worth losing your job ???
It would make a great TV show. The best since that classic about Voisey's Bay.
It would make a great TV show. The best since that classic about Voisey's Bay.
Thanks 407,
Those numbers dont look to bad,I expected less. but as a professional pilot myself I will be pulling out those things in the flight manual, ahhh, OH performance charts.I know they're in there somewhere. 🙄
As for the external exceedance lights. I will assume it will have them, but you know what they say about assuming. If it doesnt I will certainly be on the blower.
It should be very interesting there, it sounds like a whole new world fighting fires compared to what we are used to up here.
Those numbers dont look to bad,I expected less. but as a professional pilot myself I will be pulling out those things in the flight manual, ahhh, OH performance charts.I know they're in there somewhere. 🙄
As for the external exceedance lights. I will assume it will have them, but you know what they say about assuming. If it doesnt I will certainly be on the blower.
It should be very interesting there, it sounds like a whole new world fighting fires compared to what we are used to up here.
VERTICAL REF
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I wonder if we will see a more "accurate" similar article in Vertical sometime in the future?
407 Driver
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Sorry Kyle, we'll try and keep focused on the topic :blink: :wacko: 
You know what I found surprising about Vertical's last issue was that they pretty much singled out buddy whatshisface (Mr Allard I think) that owns Heli-Excel, Mustang and Venture as letting his iron go for a "cheaper than should be" rate (which apparently is more than true) and they made it sound like he was the reason why the industry's hourly rates are still in the basement. What was even more surprising was Allard's management actually admitting that fact and then trying to justify it using the old "all our equipment is paid for" routine. I don't remember there being so much disdain for an operator (besides Canadian of course hee hee) since Abitibi set foot in Calgary!
I was surprised to see a magazine tackle that issue, and single out operators no less, as it opens the mother of all can of worms!!!!!
If nothing else, between the two magazine, there's plenty of entertaining reading material (however crass it may be!)
I was surprised to see a magazine tackle that issue, and single out operators no less, as it opens the mother of all can of worms!!!!!
If nothing else, between the two magazine, there's plenty of entertaining reading material (however crass it may be!)
Vertical Mag
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If I can convince (or pay copious amounts of money) CTD to write it sure you will! Actually Phil is focusing his Saftey Column on the subject in the next issue.
It's unfortunate that the story was printed as it was sent in despite the concerns I voiced over the article when it was originally sent to me. I had sent it to someone I would consider one of the most experienced pilots in the industry for an opinion. I'm not a pilot, and had serious questions concering some of the techniques that the author wrote about. Those concerns were ignored and nothing was changed!
The question I have is, do you think low-time pilots will see the mis-information, or do you all have real concerns that there are people that will go out and try some of these techniques?
It's unfortunate that the story was printed as it was sent in despite the concerns I voiced over the article when it was originally sent to me. I had sent it to someone I would consider one of the most experienced pilots in the industry for an opinion. I'm not a pilot, and had serious questions concering some of the techniques that the author wrote about. Those concerns were ignored and nothing was changed!
The question I have is, do you think low-time pilots will see the mis-information, or do you all have real concerns that there are people that will go out and try some of these techniques?
Vertical Mag
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Jetbox,
What a can of worms it was we opened. We can no longer candy coat some of the issues facing the industry. Everyone has been talking about B. Allard Holding, and the issue could not be ignored. I have received several emails asking why I didn’t take this approach sooner! Still, no one sent in any solutions on how to fix the problem. But then again, it’s the same problem that the industry has/will always face.
Since the story came out some things have changed…Mustang is now paying insurance on all of their helicopters, which should change things a bit.
What a can of worms it was we opened. We can no longer candy coat some of the issues facing the industry. Everyone has been talking about B. Allard Holding, and the issue could not be ignored. I have received several emails asking why I didn’t take this approach sooner! Still, no one sent in any solutions on how to fix the problem. But then again, it’s the same problem that the industry has/will always face.
Since the story came out some things have changed…Mustang is now paying insurance on all of their helicopters, which should change things a bit.
Mike, on your two points,
Whether new pilots will read and try what was written in the article - it's more than possible and that is a concern - something to balance what was written would be good and would help. I would hazard to say that a lot of new pilots read these magazines cover to cover and a lot will take what is written as gospel and/or accepted practice. I am hoping that "Helicopters" may take the opportunity in a subsequent issue to address the concerns.
Also kudos for the tariff article - you did it in a very professional way and going to the source for comment will eliminate any future criticism - keep up that type of work and it eventually will help the industry.
Thanks for listening
Whether new pilots will read and try what was written in the article - it's more than possible and that is a concern - something to balance what was written would be good and would help. I would hazard to say that a lot of new pilots read these magazines cover to cover and a lot will take what is written as gospel and/or accepted practice. I am hoping that "Helicopters" may take the opportunity in a subsequent issue to address the concerns.
Also kudos for the tariff article - you did it in a very professional way and going to the source for comment will eliminate any future criticism - keep up that type of work and it eventually will help the industry.
Thanks for listening
VERTICAL REF
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Hear! Hear! to no more "candy coating"...
Here here!! To paying CTD copious amounts of money!
Seriously, everyone should write a letter to these guys with whatever concerns you may have. I don't usually read the mag, but picked it up at HAC one morning when I arrived before it opened and sat down for a read. Mr Armstrong has been around a long time, and has much to offer, but his thinking in this area is 50 years old.
Mike, kudos for having the insight to not run this piece, and for the tariff article as well. You know what they say, "it's all about integrity - if you have it; nothing else matters, and if you don't have it; nothing else matters."
Seriously, everyone should write a letter to these guys with whatever concerns you may have. I don't usually read the mag, but picked it up at HAC one morning when I arrived before it opened and sat down for a read. Mr Armstrong has been around a long time, and has much to offer, but his thinking in this area is 50 years old.
Mike, kudos for having the insight to not run this piece, and for the tariff article as well. You know what they say, "it's all about integrity - if you have it; nothing else matters, and if you don't have it; nothing else matters."
I read the article today out of shear boredom, and found that the author did mention that these longlining practices were not recomended. It's a shame he felt he needed to describe them, because we all know somebody will eventually try them. It's kind of like telling a guy that it's wrong to steal money from grandma, but then giving you hints on how to get away with it.
One thing about the article I found too was that he was very pro short lineing. Every view with shortlining had a positive, many with longlining had a negative.
I remember a short lined load that had a tail of rope from a spool that was about two feet short of the tail rotor. Can you imagine the mess if it wriggled out a couple more feet? The position of the load in the mirror was such that the rope was not visible by him so he had no clue he was that close to disaster.
One thing about the article I found too was that he was very pro short lineing. Every view with shortlining had a positive, many with longlining had a negative.
I remember a short lined load that had a tail of rope from a spool that was about two feet short of the tail rotor. Can you imagine the mess if it wriggled out a couple more feet? The position of the load in the mirror was such that the rope was not visible by him so he had no clue he was that close to disaster.
VERTICAL REF
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I would read an article written by this CTD fella! 😉
Yea Yea, I get it wrong hear! 😛
Yea Yea, I get it wrong hear! 😛
407 Driver
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One of the only positives of the article was that he did say that one should have some training before longlining.
I don't think he has any idea just how good some pilots have become at this game.
Take guys like V-Ref or Big Duke or Seismic Driver, they spend 300 to 600 hours /year or more out that window !
I don't think he has any idea just how good some pilots have become at this game.
Take guys like V-Ref or Big Duke or Seismic Driver, they spend 300 to 600 hours /year or more out that window !
