Longline Vs Shortline

[jetbox]

Vertical Mag, one thing I didn't say in my comment was that I too am glad to see an article written about the tariff "can of worms" and I hope you take no offense. Specially considering the fact that Mr Allards own management admitted their undercutting practices, I was elated to see that they would actually admit it!!!
I was simply surprised to see such a direct approach taken in a helicopter magazine. But then again, what better way to "not sugar coat" the issue anymore??
Buddywatshisface did have a point when he said that they weren't any worse than some western operators and he's right.
I just wish those operators would stop such damaging practices even if they can afford it because in the end, we all lose big time!! :down: :down:

P.S. Mustang probably can't afford to self insure the gargage, I mean the helicopters they bought from Airborne!!! Did I say that out loud???? 🙄 🙄

 

[407 Driver]

In the spirit of politeness, You should refer to those aircraft as "mechanically disadvantaged"

 

[jetbox]

Or perhaps mechanically handicaped??? :huh: :huh:

 

[VERTICAL REF]

I look forward to the up comming Vertical Mag / CTD longlining issue... 😉

 

[Nomex]

VERTICAL REF - check your pm's

 

[VERTICAL REF]

Thanks nomex, for the info!

 

[bubbleboy]

Early in my flying career, after the basic long line intro, I had a very good chief pilot suggest putting on the line at every opportunity to get used to the thing. This usually meant making perfectly round drums square! :blink: The result is that I am embarrassed/proud? to say that I don't know how to short-line, and in fact find the notion very uncomfortable.

The article in question puts forward some very questionable methods about working with a long line from an operational perspective, however there is an under-lying theme that has me concerned. One that I have been thinking about a great deal the older I get, and the bigger the mortgage becomes.

As our Canadian society becomes more comfortable with civil law suits, what lawyer would be able to defend our butts if it ever comes to the question: "are you familiar with your helicopters height-velocity diagram?" The worst case scenario (heaven forbid), is that you are having an off day, it's late in the season and your tired, or you just made that pick for the hundredth time, and then the gerbils go for lunch!! Yes, my prayers would hope that we all put it to the side and everybody goes home safe. What if however; the machine ends up in the drill shack and the primary wage earner in another household is not so lucky.

While I maintain that long lining is the way to go, are there statistics that could be used on our behalf to temper the black and white that is contained in that legal document called the flight manual?

Is this something we should be concerned about?

 

[Albert Ross]

Certainly check whether the h/v diagram is recommended or not (if it's in the limitations section it's mandatory). However, the sad truth is that, however well you justify your decision (h/v not valid for approaches anyway, etc) a smart lawyer will still make you look bad and juries think that anything to do with aviation has megabucks involved, or they at least know there might be insurance with deep pockets.

Phil

 

[jetbox]

Based on the premiums they charge, the insurance companies must have the deepest of pockets!!!! :down: :down:

 

[VERTICAL REF]

Bubble boy,

The HV curve is not really an issue for most of us when we longline! Why would it be? The curve is stating that a "non bending" landing to a "firm hard surface" may not be accomplished!

I would rather be at a 150' hover with myself on board than at 50' and 20kts with 14 passengers along.

I believe I would have a much better chance from a hover than I would with the second described situation.

Remember the HV curves are calculated at all up maximum gross wt. Something you are at only for a breif transition during longlining operations till the airspeed indicator starts to wiggle!

You are in the curve a lot less than one would think on the end of a longline line!!! No kidding... 😉

 

[Herman Nelson]

Well, this topic seems to be getting old but I just read the article and nearly fell off my chair.

Glad to see someone else share my views.

Stay warm,

H.N.

 

[Skids Up]

Anyone take the time to send a note to both the publisher and the editor? Both emails are in the front of the magazine. Told them they needed a section fro readers comments and suggested they could find the room by removing KA and all his stupid remarks! :down:

Wonder if they will find the space to publish that?!?

 

[Winnie]

Rumors have it that this feller did a waterbucketing course around here some time ago, where he advocated comming in downwind, flaring downwind, then turn into the wind and depart. He apparently said that he did this all the time, in tight spots... :unsure:

 

[sharkbait]

I would love to see a demonstration of that where the water decides not to leave the bucket. :huh: - Momentum is sometimes not our friend!!!! 🙄

 

[Herman Nelson]

Finally wrote to the editor, I had to rewrite twice to somewhat tame it down to a civilized level...

Nothing personnal against Mr. A whom I don't personally know, but perhaps they picked the wrong guy to write this article.