M&R LBO2 Vote Predictions

[Overspeed]

So the day after this passes 4,000 pink slips handed out. So who is going to replace the work of the 4,000 guys being layed off? AA went from 4,000 to 2,000 and since BK was filed over 600 have left the company. At this rate we may have to hire off the street.
FEAR is all the union and company have left to finish raping us of what little we have left of this once proud profession. Please get real and take a break. Your too wound up in your own FEAR.

You are partly correct. The numbers are based off the January 2012 work load and plan. So if AA needed 5,000 people on property and 600 left like you said, the need for 4,000 would drop to 3,400.

I am not fearful. I have more than enough seniority to stay on and will continue working. Vote no and see what happens.

The changes were laid out as occurring over 18 months from DOS however some work like seat re-pitch has started in motion . The first thing that would happen is WARN notices would go out. Since 757 and WB AO is first to go I expect AFW to close first.

 

[Mr Red]

You are partly correct. The numbers are based off the January 2012 work load and plan. So if AA needed 5,000 people on property and 600 left like you said, the need for 4,000 would drop to 3,400.

I am not fearful. I have more than enough seniority to stay on and will continue working. Vote no and see what happens.

The changes were laid out as occurring over 18 months from DOS however some work like seat re-pitch has started in motion . The first thing that would happen is WARN notices would go out. Since 757 and WB AO is first to go I expect AFW to close first.

Just like they were going to let 400 pilots go,when low and behold there's a shortage!and then the F/As that had their furlows cut short because guess what SHORTAGE !Their is a 6yr manifesto for the AMTs
for a reason.It will take that long to replace the Fleet. 15 YEARS AS A BOTTOM FEEDER is what that yes vote gets you VOTE NO !!!!

 

[Overspeed]

Embellish? How so, I said there is a shortage, I didnt define to what degree or where it was the most severe.

Making thgings up to attack, FOX News is at it again!

Did I say 4000 getting laid off, are you sure about that? Making things up again? If so I meant 4000 jobs eliminated, thats not the same as laying off 4000. Case in point, in 2003 we had what was it 16000 or 18000 in M&R, but now we have 11500, did all those people get laid off? NO but they eliminated over 5000 jobs, and we didnt get credit for most of them.

Please, with system protection gone and the ability to outsource at least 35% of the maintenance spend, if AA had a place to send the work, such as that new hangar in Mexico, what in the new contract that you advocate is stopping them from laying off 4000 workers the day after ratification?

I was elected to represent, I tell people what I see, from my perspective. They may share my views or they may not, but at least they get an opinion from someone who enjoyed and took pride in being an Aircraft Mechanic. The TWU is the Union in place. I will do whatever I can to change this organization, more specifically the AATD, to meet the needs and expectations of my coworkers. If others seek to go to a dfifferent organization thats their right, I will keep doing what I have to do to get this organization to make the changes that even Jim Little admits are needed, my coworkers are entitled to that and thats what they want me to do. Are you saying that our coworkers should accept whats going on with their careers at AA? Are you saying that the AATD is an efficient and effective structure for mechanics, Stores and fleet service? Are you saying thats it OK for the membership elected leaders to be subordinate in all contractual matters to appointed leaders from the International? Are you saying that the fact that the A&Ps in negotaitions are outnumbered by non-A&Ps is OK by you? There were 6 A&P mechanics in Negotiations, the other 10 were not even though A&Ps make up the largest part of the contract. Two Fleet service clerks, who remain only below Southwest, and ahead of the rest of the industry, voted to recommend that mechanics accept the worst contract in the industry, you are OK with that as well?

Easy Bob, sit back and try decaf.

When you speak in generalizations you either do that to deceive or you don't read the whole article. The Boeing study breaks it out and in North America the shortage is not that great and was revised down.

Bob you have stated numerous times that the 4,000 (approx) would be laid off anyway due to new fleet types. The HC number is not the whole story when comparing 2003 to now. We reduced over 200 aircraft since then, leaned out the maintenance program, and reduced the line and base maintenance foot print. You don't need as many mechanics when you merge to airlines because there is overlap in resources - human and facilities. The same thing will happen if there is a merger with AA. It is ridiculous to ignore all the factors that come in to play when determining HC. In JFK you went from an A300 BC to a 757. Did the number of BC's stay the same? Did the HC on the BC go down? Yes. Critical thinking is an important skill to bring to bear when throwing out numbers Bob. Think Bob, think.

System protection sets a floor on the date they can layoff to does it not? If so HC is not physically locked in at say 10,000 for example. So AA could attrit out thousands over the years but still maintain system protection if that was the blocker to forcing AA to hire TWU AMTs to work on AA aircraft. Maintenance spend at 65% in-house holds on to the work regardless of system protection. Now as I discussed earlier the same cost work on AO and Engines can drive different HC requirements. An engine overhaul requires fewer AMTs than one aircraft in AO even though the cost could be the same. Critical thinking again Bob. Think.

To be honest Bob. The make up of A&Ps on the committee isn't my concern. You are an A&P and have cost us over $20,000 since 2010 and the no vote recommendation. We are still "fighting" for more money right? Your perspective is flawed and has not paid any dividends for the membership. If we vote no like you want, we go in to negotiations from an even lower bargaining position than we are at now. So now to get back to the May 2010 TA the committee must get us top airline wages, 10% outsourcing, retiree medical for at least the over 50 crowd, full retro pay back to May 2010, and the pension for incumbent employees. I am so excited to see the world class TWU Negotiating Committee get the membership the pay day you are "fighting" for!!!

 

[Mr Red]

Easy Bob, sit back and try decaf.

When you speak in generalizations you either do that to deceive or you don't read the whole article. The Boeing study breaks it out and in North America the shortage is not that great and was revised down.

Bob you have stated numerous times that the 4,000 (approx) would be laid off anyway due to new fleet types. The HC number is not the whole story when comparing 2003 to now. We reduced over 200 aircraft since then, leaned out the maintenance program, and reduced the line and base maintenance foot print. You don't need as many mechanics when you merge to airlines because there is overlap in resources - human and facilities. The same thing will happen if there is a merger with AA. It is ridiculous to ignore all the factors that come in to play when determining HC. In JFK you went from an A300 BC to a 757. Did the number of BC's stay the same? Did the HC on the BC go down? Yes. Critical thinking is an important skill to bring to bear when throwing out numbers Bob. Think Bob, think.

System protection sets a floor on the date they can layoff to does it not? If so HC is not physically locked in at say 10,000 for example. So AA could attrit out thousands over the years but still maintain system protection if that was the blocker to forcing AA to hire TWU AMTs to work on AA aircraft. Maintenance spend at 65% in-house holds on to the work regardless of system protection. Now as I discussed earlier the same cost work on AO and Engines can drive different HC requirements. An engine overhaul requires fewer AMTs than one aircraft in AO even though the cost could be the same. Critical thinking again Bob. Think.

To be honest Bob. The make up of A&Ps on the committee isn't my concern. You are an A&P and have cost us over $20,000 since 2010 and the no vote recommendation. We are still "fighting" for more money right? Your perspective is flawed and has not paid any dividends for the membership. If we vote no like you want, we go in to negotiations from an even lower bargaining position than we are at now. So now to get back to the May 2010 TA the committee must get us top airline wages, 10% outsourcing, retiree medical for at least the over 50 crowd, full retro pay back to May 2010, and the pension for incumbent employees. I am so excited to see the world class TWU Negotiating Committee get the membership the pay day you are "fighting" for!!!

Your ship is SINKING and your still on the soapbox.It was over 10 years ago!
VOTE NO !!!

 

[jacfrost]

You are partly correct. The numbers are based off the January 2012 work load and plan. So if AA needed 5,000 people on property and 600 left like you said, the need for 4,000 would drop to 3,400.

I am not fearful. I have more than enough seniority to stay on and will continue working. Vote no and see what happens.

The changes were laid out as occurring over 18 months from DOS however some work like seat re-pitch has started in motion . The first thing that would happen is WARN notices would go out. Since 757 and WB AO is first to go I expect AFW to close first.

Is there anyone left that has any questions as to AFW staying open? IT is closing no matter the outcome of the vote. Please let us at AFW know if a YES vote would keep it open, right now that's not happening.
I voted no, and am standing firm.

 

[700UW]

Funny I showed Bob Owens where he was wrong and posting misinformation and not all the information in regards to Section 1167 and Lorenzo and he is silent!

 

[Buster CRC]

Yea, probally cause he is in meetings now.

 

[1AA]

Funny I showed Bob Owens where he was wrong and posting misinformation and not all the information in regards to Section 1167 and Lorenzo and he is silent!

If your too impatient for a response then try this method.

Bob Owens TWU Local 562 President
Email: bowens@twu.org
Phone: 718-978-5590

Let us know how it goes.....

 

[Ghost tech]

Look at what was giving up on the 2010 vote. Next year we would be making more per year than we would on this vote. Maybe bob can shake the magic 8 ball and tell us how it will work out. If Tulsa down seizes the line will feel it. But I'm sure you prefer the soup lines. Voting no is just what the company wants. But I guess if you vote no you can save face by saying it was imposed on you.

 

[Birdman]

I omitted myself from the no voting membership. Easy man. You are wound too tight.

If your really "on the floor" wouldn't you also have to bear the consequences, good or bad? If you want us to believe that the InternAAtional and local 514 is not actively participating in these discussions through you, you're mistaken. Again it's ok, we understand, but you(all) have more time to post with more inside information than anyone of us on the outside could dig up.

 

[Mr Red]

Look at what was giving up on the 2010 vote. Next year we would be making more per year than we would on this vote. Maybe bob can shake the magic 8 ball and tell us how it will work out. If Tulsa down seizes the line will feel it. But I'm sure you prefer the soup lines. Voting no is just what the company wants. But I guess if you vote no you can save face by saying it was imposed on you.

Why don't you let everyone know what would have been given up in 2010
right off the top prefunding would have stopped and match would have went into managements pocket.
10,000.00 my match alone VOTE NO !!!

 

[Overspeed]

Yea, probally cause he is in meetings now.

I just looked across the table. He is busy playing Airline Mogul practicing his mad airline management skillz!

 

[Overspeed]

Why don't you let everyone know what would have been given up in 2010
right off the top prefunding would have stopped and match would have went into managements pocket.
10,000.00 my match alone VOTE NO !!!

Wrong. That is a distortion. Prefunding as we know did not change for the over 50 crowd. They still maintained their status under the existing plan at the time. The 45 to 49+364 day group got a bridge to the new SK pay funded plan (like WN) and the under 45 group funded their retiree medical under an unused SK pay bank fund. SK bank went to max 250 days with a catastrophic SK day recovery plan in place. The match would not have gone in to management's pocket either way, it is in a trust and can only be used for the purpose intended, paying for retiree medical.

You believe too much of the vote no coalition's BS.

MCT's are still getting paid even under the 3/22 ask industry top wages they voted for in their 2010 TA. If we had voted yes we would be working from number two pay in the industry as a starting point for discussions with AA during the 1113c process. Now we are hoping to get a 3% raise at best DOS with the 2012 TA if we vote yes and abrogation and no raise if we vote no with the ability to "fight" for getting number two wages.

With a possible merger after exiting BK and slow NMB/NLRA process we may be looking at two to three years of bottom of the industry pay if we vote no. But we willing be "fighting" as Bob says.

 

[Frank Szabo]

If your really "on the floor" wouldn't you also have to bear the consequences, good or bad? If you want us to believe that the InternAAtional and local 514 is not actively participating in these discussions through you, you're mistaken. Again it's ok, we understand, but you(all) have more time to post with more inside information than anyone of us on the outside could dig up.

It's comical to see underturn posting as if this site is going to make a big difference in any voting. The "choir" can't be over 30 people on here but he/she keeps on preaching anyway.

 

[700UW]

What I was referring to was posted yesterday and he has posted since, I guess he doesnt like to be shown wrong. I find it amazing that a union leader who is trying to lead his members would distort the information and leave out the true information.

And to Overspeed,

The NRLA has nothing to do with this that would be the RLA.