MAH You're Being Trumped. Care to Speculate?

[Capejet]

We used to fly JFK-NCE years ago/ Early 80's?

AA has tried and failed in its attempt to serve so many different European destinations in the past. I dont understand why AA has such a difficult time making European cities work while DL and others are able to serve so many European cities profitably. In my opinion there must be a problem within the AA Europe Sales division or some internal marketing division. The AA people running these departments just aren't as smart as DL's. That is the only logical conclusion.

 

[MAH4546]

Before making baseless assumptions, you should check your facts. American's European operation has been year after year significantly more profitable than Delta's.

 

[Capejet]

Before making baseless assumptions, you should check your facts. American's European operation has been year after year significantly more profitable than Delta's.

DL can make Copenhagen, Budapest, Bucharest and Venice work but AA has to discontinue service to Stockholm, Dusseldorf, Munich and Lyon? Something is not right here. DL just seems to be able to make some very difficult markets work. The difference can not be inflight service or scheduled flight times. That leads one to speculate about other areas of the companies. Perhaps DL just knows how to pick routes and groom them better than AA.

 

[Bob Owens]

More Colombia filghts? Are the execs running low on coke?

I've oft wondered what the outcome of a company-wide (not only mech and related) drug testing program would be.

Especially HQ.

 

[MAH4546]

DL can make Copenhagen, Budapest, Bucharest and Venice work but AA has to discontinue service to Stockholm, Dusseldorf, Munich and Lyon? Something is not right here. DL just seems to be able to make some very difficult markets work. The difference can not be inflight service or scheduled flight times. That leads one to speculate about other areas of the companies. Perhaps DL just knows how to pick routes and groom them better than AA.

Again, you are not basing this on any facts. Use facts, don't just assume.

AA's profit margins to Europe are 17.7%. Delta's is a slim 3.2%. Delta essentially supports the smaller markets - many of which are not profitable - with the bigger markets. Don't just assume that because Delta flies to Budapest and Pisa the routes print money. Some niche markets work, some don't. AA perfers to avoid niche markets, but that's going to change. Unlike Delta, however, they are going to be conservative about entering all these niche markets so that it doesn't take a huge toll on their trans-Atlantic profits, as it has on Delta, who has the worst profit margins of any U.S. airline to Europe by a significant amount.

 

[Maark767]

DL can make Copenhagen, Budapest, Bucharest and Venice work but AA has to discontinue service to Stockholm, Dusseldorf, Munich and Lyon? Something is not right here. DL just seems to be able to make some very difficult markets work. The difference can not be inflight service or scheduled flight times. That leads one to speculate about other areas of the companies. Perhaps DL just knows how to pick routes and groom them better than AA.

It's our strong alliance with British Airways... feed them through LHR...

 

[Maark767]

I honestly do have no idea, but I can say seven long-haul routes that have been getting serious talk lately:

Dallas-Madrid

JFK-Moscow
JFK-Nice

Miami-Asuncion (a go once Paraguay finalize a new incentive package)
Miami-Milan (looking likely, but not until winter 2008)
Miami-Recife (a go once approved by Brazilian authorities)
Miami-Salvador da Bahia (a go once approved by Brazilian authorities)

Maybe it is one of those?

Do you mind linking to this post?

On what I do know...AA will announce more Colombia flights (but not new destinations) next week.

And where are we getting the airplanes for all this flying???

 

[MAH4546]

And where are we getting the airplanes for all this flying???

Decreased domestic flying and tighter aircraft utilization. Also, look for new widebody deliveries to start up again in spring 2009.

 

[formeraa]

Again, you are not basing this on any facts. Use facts, don't just assume.

AA's profit margins to Europe are 17.7%. Delta's is a slim 3.2%. Delta essentially supports the smaller markets - many of which are not profitable - with the bigger markets. Don't just assume that because Delta flies to Budapest and Pisa the routes print money. Some niche markets work, some don't. AA perfers to avoid niche markets, but that's going to change. Unlike Delta, however, they are going to be conservative about entering all these niche markets so that it doesn't take a huge toll on their trans-Atlantic profits, as it has on Delta, who has the worst profit margins of any U.S. airline to Europe by a significant amount.

MAH is ABSOLUTELY correct here. In terms of international service, AA requires that each route stand on its own. Route profitability is KEY at AA. Otherwise, AA would still be flying the JFK-Lyons-Mulhouse route (am I remembering this one right from the 80's?).

 

[Corinth2103]

Hey Mark...just heard from an M.O.D. buddy that Chicago-Moscow will start next year...have you heard anything??


EDIT: Never mind..I see you mentioned something about it on the 14th...so I guess it's a "go" afterall...Thanks!

 

[FA Mikey]

Tm here is the press release

story here

American Airlines, the world's largest airline and a founding member of the global oneworld Alliance®, will begin nonstop service from Chicago O'Hare International Airport (ORD) to Moscow's Domodedovo International Airport (DME) on June 2, 2008.

 

[FA Mikey]

Chicago, Chicago, Chicago, Still waiting to see what happens with JFK and the new terminal.

 

[eolesen]

AA served LYS in the late 80's, but I don't recall them ever serving NCE.

My comments about AF/DL benefitting them at NCE has much more to do with the concentration of people living in NCE/Cannes/Monoco who belong to AF's FF program and get miles on DL when flying to the states.

DL just seems to be able to make some very difficult markets work. The difference can not be inflight service or scheduled flight times. That leads one to speculate about other areas of the companies. Perhaps DL just knows how to pick routes and groom them better than AA.

Care to remind me which one of the two carriers went insolvent?....

As already pointed out, DL wants to be able to say they offer more service to more destinations. Good for them. It didn't work for Pan Am... maybe they'll have better luck.

Internationally, AA takes the same approach WN does domestically: fly to places with enough critical mass to make a decent profit year-round. ARN, MXP, DUS, MUC and other secondary markets in Europe didn't fit that bill, especially when you start to consider the impact that alliances and open skies had on at least three of the markets mentioned.

 

[MAH4546]

Word is to expect JFK-NCE (Jun08), MIA-MXP (Nov08), and DFW-MAD (May09).

 

[formeraa]

AA has tried and failed in its attempt to serve so many different European destinations in the past. I dont understand why AA has such a difficult time making European cities work while DL and others are able to serve so many European cities profitably. In my opinion there must be a problem within the AA Europe Sales division or some internal marketing division. The AA people running these departments just aren't as smart as DL's. That is the only logical conclusion.

AA hasn't failed. It just doesn't tolerate money losing routes! DL's happy as long as the whole transatlantic division makes an "x%" profit (some flights may lose money; others may make a lot of money). AA has always applied the profitability formula to EACH individual route (in general, not operating money losing routes at all).

Different management philosophies!