MEC CODE-A-PHONE UPDATE - May 19, 2007

[USA320Pilot]

MEC CODE-A-PHONE UPDATE - May 19, 2007

This is Arnie Gentile with a US Airways MEC update for Saturday, May 19th, with four new items.

Item 1. There is no question that the May 21st Executive Council meeting will have a major impact on our pilots careers. The question is: ‘is your seniority important.’ The seriousness of this upcoming meeting can not be overstated and to that end, there simply is every reason for all US Airways Pilots to attend the meeting and support their Merger Committee. There are staggering, irrecoverable effects of such issues as retirements and attrition, stagnation, lost earnings and income, and windfalls all at our expense which is in direct violation of ALPA merger policy. We can ill afford to be spectators in the final demise of our careers. The leadership of ALPA, who want to “Take it Back,†needs to see the faces that belong to the US Airways story.

To assist in transportation on Monday, we will have buses making multiple runs from both IAD and DCA airports, starting 10:00am from IAD and 9:30am from DCA to the ALPA Herndon Offices located at; 535 Herndon Pkwy, Herndon, VA, 20170. Also, Council 41 has arranged for buses from PHL to Herndon with a departure time of 9:30 am and all pilots system-wide are invited to use this transportation.

We have published a link to www.united.com for the purpose of flying into IAD, and also a link to www.amtrack.com for train information into Union Station. Other convenient links are posted to Map quest, The Metro Airport Authority, and car rentals.

The ‘Transportation to ALPA Herndon Offices’ document which was emailed last night and posted in ‘What’s New,’ contains all the details and specific information concerning transportation to/from the Herndon office including driving directions and all the convenient links.

Item 2. The MEC held a three hour Conference call meeting today and received a briefing from the Merger Committee and Merger Counsel and further discussed strategy pertaining to the Executive Council Presentation. Strike Prep and Communications also gave briefings on the conference call.

Item 3. The AWA Merger Committee and Counsel released their documents and presentation which they will use at the Executive Council meeting next Monday, May 21st. Communications will be posting those documents on ‘What’s New.’

Item 4 Membership services has provided a Furlough Administrator Update which addresses some of the effects of the Nicolau award. This update will be emailed to all pilots and posted in ‘What’s New’ and also on the public web site at www.usairwayspilots.org.

W.A.R. Item 516

FAA AIM, Chapter 8, 8-1-1, Fitness for flight

Paragraph F2, Most pilots do not leave stress “on the ground.†Therefore, when more than usual difficulties are being experienced, a pilot should consider delaying flight until these difficulties are satisfactorily resolved.

Please remember we still have 1,469 pilots on furlough, 276 pilots have been recalled and on May 14th, the most junior seniority number was 4,437 with a seniority date of October 25, 1999.

As always, look out for each other, keep your families first, fly safe and thanks for listening.

 

[700UW]

Waste of time, you are all being told what you want to hear.

Bottom line is binding arbitration is BINDING, there is nothing you can do to change that. The award will be implimented and that is all.

Changing unions won't change it.

Binding arbitration is precedent setting.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Waste of time, you are all being told what you want to hear.

Bottom line is binding arbitration is BINDING, there is nothing you can do to change that. The award will be implimented and that is all.

Changing unions won't change it.

Binding arbitration is precedent setting.

700, I think you should go to the meeting since you are a 'legal expert' on all things related to departments other than cleaners. Once you arrive you can broadcast to the hundreds in attendance [including "Top" attorneys] that they are wasting their time. Once they hear this unknown knowledge you bestowed upon them they will be enlightened and then understand that your infinite wisdom can not be surpassed.

NOT
Puhleeeeessse 700! Your ignorant babbling on this matter is disturbing and subjects your character to all new lows. Try staying objective instead of giving us endless 'nonsensical and goofy dribble' in yet another one of your desperate and angry attempts towards harassing USA320pilot.

Arbitration is what it is, don't make it anything else.

regards,

 

[700UW]

Instead of trying to attack me, refute what I posted.

Oh wait you won't, cause you can't.

What I posted is factual.

Explain how posting how union elections and binding arbitration works is harassment?

No wonder why you were removed as a grievance committeeman.

How many classes and seminars have you taken on the RLA its contents, Grievance and Arbitration procedures, union elections and organizing?

Guess you better go back and read, the East and West pilots AGREED TO BINDING ARBITRATION, those facts don't change, do you not understand what binding arbitration is?

Gee I thought it was beneath a man of the cloth to lie, insult and call names, guess I am wrong.

And one more thing, gee you being a ramper makes you any more knowledgeable on those issues? I seriously doubt that.

Actually with your track record I would say definitely not. Getting ready to start your fourth union yet?

One's job classification has nothing to with being able to educate and inform yourself on the issues and become a representative.

By the way the job classification was Utility, not Cleaner and my last job at US was Stock Clerk.

Once again, don't let the facts get in your way.

 

[SegmentKing]

I hate to say it, but 700 is right. I doubt there's much that can be done. the AAA MEC put the pilots in this position by standing firm, and now all they can do is kick & scream.

The award absolutely SUCKS! But... the MEC had time to work out & negotiate with the HP side, but never came to an accord, then agreed to the arbitration and honor how it came out.

I'm all for supporting the East pilots.. I wish Nicolau would have added time at MDA when doing this, but hey, I'm not a pilot nor am I a negotiator.

Maybe its time for change at the AAA ALPA side...

again, I feel for everyone on the East side... but this is what your union agreed to. It's all part of negotiations, and unfortunately the AAA side really blew it.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Instead of trying to attack me, refute what I posted.

Oh wait you won't, cause you can't.

What I posted is factual.

Explain how posting how union elections and binding arbitration works is harassment?

No wonder why you were removed as a grievance committeeman.

How many classes and seminars have you taken on the RLA its contents, Grievance and Arbitration procedures, union elections and organizing?

Guess you better go back and read, the East and West pilots AGREED TO BINDING ARBITRATION, those facts don't change, do you not understand what binding arbitration is?

Gee I thought it was beneath a man of the cloth to lie, insult and call names, guess I am wrong.

And one more thing, gee you being a ramper makes you any more knowledgeable on those issues? I seriously doubt that.

Actually with your track record I would say definitely not. Getting ready to start your fourth union yet?

One's job classification has nothing to with being able to educate and inform yourself on the issues and become a representative.

By the way the job classification was Utility, not Cleaner and my last job at US was Stock Clerk.

Once again, don't let the facts get in your way.

Binding arbitration is binding to what was written at that point in time. What 'was' written may end up looking alot different than what 'is' written or what 'will be written'. Things change and there are things you can do to change them. It takes money, and that is certainly one thing Pilots have. Let's see how deep this rabbit hole goes before we start running at the mouth such gloom and doom nonsense. If it was final, it would be final.

Unlike you, I do not pretend to be an expert on this proclaiming nothing can be done. In the end, IMO, I doubt that the 'fullness' of the Nic award will be realized. That's all I'm saying. Only you are claiming you know what is going to happen absolutely.

OTOH, it is utterly disturbing for someone to proclaim legal absolutes just because he has a bit of college credit by taking some IAM loyalist classes.

regards,

 

[700UW]

Binding Arbitration does not change, the award is the award and both parties are bound by the decision. Arbitration is precedent setting in regard to labor issues.

But you probably chose to ignore that since you have not been involved with any arbitration cases.

Once again you fail to address what I poised to you, guess you cant answer nor refute so you choose to ignore.

Typical of you.

Your silence says it all.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Binding Arbitration does not change, the award is the award and both parties are bound by the decision. Arbitration is precedent setting in regard to labor issues.

But you probably chose to ignore that since you have not been involved with any arbitration cases.

Once again you fail to address what I poised to you, guess you cant answer nor refute so you choose to ignore.

Typical of you.

Your silence says it all.

Again, IMO, the 'fullness' of the Nic award will not be manifested in its entirety. Both parties of ALPA will 'work it out'. I've given full consideration of everything you wrote. Things will be worked out in a fairer way for the pilots to come to a transition agreement. Otherwise there will be no merger transition agreement with them. As you know, there are no legal timelines for coming to a merger transition agreement.

Anyways, you win and I have been timed out, I can't keep up with you on the internet. I have to tend to a 'cookout' where I will be enjoying food and suds.

regards,

 

[700UW]

The seniority issues is an internal union matter, nothing to do with a new CBA, I guess you don't realize that ALPA has all ready reached a Transition Agreement with the Company, they are negotiating or were for a new combined CBA.

Guess you keep ignoring the questions as you know I am right and you are wrong and cant refute anything in the original post back to you.

 

[Elevation]

Binding arbitration is binding to what was written at that point in time. What 'was' written may end up looking alot different than what 'is' written or what 'will be written'. Things change and there are things you can do to change them. It takes money, and that is certainly one thing Pilots have. Let's see how deep this rabbit hole goes before we start running at the mouth such gloom and doom nonsense. If it was final, it would be final.

Unlike you, I do not pretend to be an expert on this proclaiming nothing can be done. In the end, IMO, I doubt that the 'fullness' of the Nic award will be realized. That's all I'm saying. Only you are claiming you know what is going to happen absolutely.

OTOH, it is utterly disturbing for someone to proclaim legal absolutes just because he has a bit of college credit by taking some IAM loyalist classes.

regards,

Ah the old debate on the definition of "is", is. Does that logic usually work for non presidents?

 

[Bud8EE]

The seniority issues is an internal union matter, nothing to do with a new CBA, I guess you don't realize that ALPA has all ready reached a Transition Agreement with the Company, they are negotiating or were for a new combined CBA.

Guess you keep ignoring the questions as you know I am right and you are wrong and cant refute anything in the original post back to you.

There in is where the EAST has its power 700UW. The language in the transition agreement prevents the use of a single seniority list, until a joint contract has been ratified. Everything points that the cost of such an agreement or the items the EAST would now want as a part of agreeing to one making it not palatable to the west negotiators and pretty much make obtaining it DOA. In the meanwhile, both parties are administrated to separately under their respective agreements with some items(new flying, etc.) controlled by the transition agreement, and this looks like it could be a very long time.

 

[700UW]

Remember the company can go to the NMB and ask for the mediation process to start and you have to abide by the NMB schedule of negotiations.

If you fail to bargain in good faith, there can be ramifications. An impasse can be declared a 30 cooling off period imposed, then you can be free to strike, unless a PEB is declared makes its investigation and recomendation and if you fail to ratify it the President can go to Congress and have your CBA legislated and imposed, all of this legal under the RLA, this has happened numerous times in the railroads.

So better becareful when playing with fire you can get burned.

 

[phasersonstun2]

Waste of time, you are all being told what you want to hear.

Bottom line is binding arbitration is BINDING, there is nothing you can do to change that. The award will be implimented and that is all.

Changing unions won't change it.

Binding arbitration is precedent setting.

Agreed. It is. What some if not all of the west pilots are missing is the devastation that some of the east pilots must now endure, based on the lack of their ability to move to the left seat.

Binding arbitration was agreed to, but the east pilot group never imagined that Mr. Nicolau would issue such a list. It was unconscionable; almost mean-spirited.

I feel the east would have accepted the list without argument if there were some protections for check-outs ala base freeze.

Without that, the east F/O's would have been better off leaving US four years ago en masse, which would have caused the airline to implode. The east F/O/'s who stayed saved the airline and the thanks they get is a permanent tenure as an F/O.

No hateful words are muttered about the west pilots. You guys are innocent. Plenty for ALPA and Nicolau.

I hate to say it, but 700 is right. I doubt there's much that can be done. the AAA MEC put the pilots in this position by standing firm...

West pilots stood firm as well.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

The seniority issues is an internal union matter, nothing to do with a new CBA, I guess you don't realize that ALPA has all ready reached a Transition Agreement with the Company, they are negotiating or were for a new combined CBA.

Guess you keep ignoring the questions as you know I am right and you are wrong and cant refute anything in the original post back to you.

It's no wonder that morale is so low at LCC. All of their legal experts are servicing lavs.

Even the government has procedures for appealing arbitration decisions. It may be rare, but it happens. As complex as the aviation industry is, ALPA would be STUPID (and I'm not saying they're not) if they don't have some mechanism to counter poor decisions by arbitrators that don't understand all of the implications of their decisions, as it sounds may have happened here. There are many things that can make contracts non-binding, and that is apparently what some folks hope will happen here. If these things were cut-and-dried then there would be no need for civil courts.

No dog in this fight right now, but I think ALPA needs to think long and hard about doing anything that devalues experience and seniority in this industry. Any sort of backpeddling on that issue WILL come back to haunt everyone in the aviation industry, in ALL work groups. The underlying theme of ALL union contracts, in ALL industries that I know of, is the fact that seniority and experience are interrelated and that experience justifies higher wages and benefits. If ALPA doesn't think experience warrants higher pay/benefits/priveleges then why should the airline companies, or any other for that matter?

As a bystander, it appears to me that there is obviously a windfall to one group, as I see nothing but demands that the award be implemented, while the other group is certainly united against it. Even in other mergers I've witnessed there was some form of agreement about fairness, even if some were not happy with what they were awarded. I gotta admit, I find it hard to fathom that if what I read is correct that guys with AW who were with the company less than 6 months were placed in the seniority list ahead of guys that were never furloughed and at US for more than 18 years is ludicrous. I'm not agreeing totally with the East pilots, but many of the examples I'm reading on this and other boards just make me scratch my head and wonder what the heck the arbitrator was thinking.

 

[700UW]

Gee another lame attempt at a jab.

First of all I am not with US, and I was a stock clerk. Lavs have been outsourced.

And does not matter what your job is or your classification for someone to take the time and educate yourself and take classes on the above mentioned topics.

Do you think you have to be a pilot to be intelligent and educate yourself?

Binding Arbitration and Union Elections are clear in the laws of the land, if you pilots took the time to educate yourself maybe you would actually understand them.

Binding Arbitration is BINDING, is that too hard to understand? Both sides presented their cases and the East probably did a very bad job to lose like it did.