Mechanics target overseas airline maintenance

[Bob Owens]

They still have a large pool of people willing to take your job at the pay you are now making. That is a fact.

Well willing is one thing, able, is another. As you said NWA had already invested in replacements. AA hasnt and it would be impossible to keep that a secret in this small industry.The fact is there isnt a large pool of guys with experience on the equipement we have available. The fact is that out of 298 recalls, people who had experience and time with the company only a handful agreed to come back.Thats a fact. We also have a steady stream of guys who are not at risk of getting laid off quitting and leaving the profession, thats a fact. The company denied the VBRs to the line because they said they could not afford to let guys go on the line, thats a fact. If you can give me something to support your facts please do so.

How many of these OSM's have A&P licenses that would be willing to take your line job at your current pay?

I doubt very many. We had a guy leave New York and downgrade to OSM because he figured that even with the paycut he was better off due to the cost of living.

It is a good thing that many are studying for other careers. I am only now in my mid/late 40's. I started a new, lucrative career, post NWA strike. It would not have happened if I had not started back to college 6 months prior to the strike. My degree, coupled with my many years of aviation maintenance experience opened many doors.

Exactly, and a lot of guys arent waiting for a strike either. Just because NWA was able to break AMFA it doesnt mean that Unions cant fight back. Like I said you guys had ALPA and the IAM helping the company. In the end the IAM got what they deserved, they lost their members anyway, what they did was a crime against the working class, they put petty disagreements over the concept of unionism and helped a company break a union by crossing picket lines and doing struck work. Over in Europe that doesnt happen, unions may disagree but they dont jump on the companys side. The only union that I recall that acted with any honor was the UAW. Congratulations on your new career but I guess you still got the bug and thats what brings you here. Its unfortunate that they dont want to allow us to be able to make a living doing this anymore.

Tthe airlines saving grace at this point is that demand is down, the average age is 46 in our Local, more than half of the A&P schools have closed, we have the VietNam/baby boomer generation starting to retire. When the economy starts to expand again there will be a shortage of not just airline workers but workers in general.

 

[tech2101]

Well willing is one thing, able, is another. As you said NWA had already invested in replacements. AA hasnt and it would be impossible to keep that a secret in this small industry.The fact is there isnt a large pool of guys with experience on the equipement we have available. The fact is that out of 298 recalls, people who had experience and time with the company only a handful agreed to come back.Thats a fact. We also have a steady stream of guys who are not at risk of getting laid off quitting and leaving the profession, thats a fact. The company denied the VBRs to the line because they said they could not afford to let guys go on the line, thats a fact. If you can give me something to support your facts please do so.



I doubt very many. We had a guy leave New York and downgrade to OSM because he figured that even with the paycut he was better off due to the cost of living.



Exactly, and a lot of guys arent waiting for a strike either. Just because NWA was able to break AMFA it doesnt mean that Unions cant fight back. Like I said you guys had ALPA and the IAM helping the company. In the end the IAM got what they deserved, they lost their members anyway, what they did was a crime against the working class, they put petty disagreements over the concept of unionism and helped a company break a union by crossing picket lines and doing struck work. Over in Europe that doesnt happen, unions may disagree but they dont jump on the companys side. The only union that I recall that acted with any honor was the UAW. Congratulations on your new career but I guess you still got the bug and thats what brings you here. Its unfortunate that they dont want to allow us to be able to make a living doing this anymore.

Tthe airlines saving grace at this point is that demand is down, the average age is 46 in our Local, more than half of the A&P schools have closed, we have the VietNam/baby boomer generation starting to retire. When the economy starts to expand again there will be a shortage of not just airline workers but workers in general.

I just hope you never think that it can't happen to you. There are many people that have A&P's that have never been able to get hired at a major that would jump at the chance to replace you. They toil at reigonal's, repair stations, and some working outside aviation waiting on their chance. All AA would have to do is raid some of the MRO's. The experience does not matter to them. They would just boost their maintenance control ranks and have the people work on aircraft under the direction of them. It would not work if the pilots did not accept them as they did at NWA.

This has been an interesting conversation, however fantastic it is. The TWU will never allow its membership to go on strike, so I think it is moot.

 

[Hopeful]

There are many people that have A&P's that have never been able to get hired at a major that would jump at the chance to replace you. They toil at reigonal's, repair stations, and some working outside aviation waiting on their chance. All AA would have to do is raid some of the MRO's. The experience does not matter to them. They would just boost their maintenance control ranks and have the people work on aircraft under the direction of them. It would not work if the pilots did not accept them as they did at NWA.

You area assuming AA will pay them the current rate. If AA needs to replace striking mechanics, it will be under their new terms of slave wages and no benefits that we have now.

And no, we should not strike right now, we are no where near that point. but until then, every mechanic needs to show the company how they feel about their latest offer.

 

[MERV]

You area assuming AA will pay them the current rate. If AA needs to replace striking mechanics, it will be under their new terms of slave wages and no benefits that we have now.

And no, we should not strike right now, we are no where near that point. but until then, every mechanic needs to show the company how they feel about their latest offer.

I agree with you it so easy to replace us!

 

[Bear96]

With rare exceptions Fezziwigs dont run corporations, Scrooges do.

Why do you think that is, Bob?

 

[Bob Owens]

Why do you think that is, Bob?

Because thats the nature of the Beast.

 

[Bear96]

Because thats the nature of the Beast.

That's not really an answer.

 

[tech2101]

Because thats the nature of the Beast.

It sounds as if you are resigned to the fact that things will never change, therefore, they will not.

You should be one of those leading the charge to show that a successful corporation can be run by the Fezziwigs. You have tried that by using the Southwest Airlines model as an example.

Announcing that you and your membership have/will give substandard performance based on your lack of pay will not lead to that. Southwest employees were not always the high paid people you hold out for example now. They have worked hard to make SWA what they are today...even when they were getting paid less than their competitors.

 

[FWAAA]

You area assuming AA will pay them the current rate. If AA needs to replace striking mechanics, it will be under their new terms of slave wages and no benefits that we have now.

If AA tried to replace striking workers (I agree that the entire premise is very unlikely), what would stop AA from offering replacements in high-cost line stations something like $45-$50 an hour while offering those in Tulsa and Fort Worth more like $25-$30/hr?

As I've posted before, AA is probably not opposed to paying Owens and others in NYC, CHI, LAX, MIA or BOS more money - the problem is that paying the line mechanics what they're worth means overpaying several thousand others in flyover country whose work can be performed anywhere in the world at much lower rates than Owens is demanding.

Personally, I don't think $45/hr is out of the question for the relatively few mechanics in the high-cost cities. But until something is done that frees AA from having to pay everyone in Tulsa that same wage, AA is going to drag their feet. Houses cost much less and many other expenses are much lower at the maintenance bases - why should AA's employee expenses be the same no matter the city? It's becoming apparent that AA's decision to keep overhaul in-house is dragging down the wages of the line mechanics. Nearly every other airline's line mechanics make more money than at AA. and the one thing those other airlines have in common is that they outsource nearly 100% of their heavy airframe overhaul (so they don't have to overpay employees providing that service).

 

[tech2101]

If AA tried to replace striking workers (I agree that the entire premise is very unlikely), what would stop AA from offering replacements in high-cost line stations something like $45-$50 an hour while offering those in Tulsa and Fort Worth more like $25-$30/hr?

As I've posted before, AA is probably not opposed to paying Owens and others in NYC, CHI, LAX, MIA or BOS more money - the problem is that paying the line mechanics what they're worth means overpaying several thousand others in flyover country whose work can be performed anywhere in the world at much lower rates than Owens is demanding.

Personally, I don't think $45/hr is out of the question for the relatively few mechanics in the high-cost cities. But until something is done that frees AA from having to pay everyone in Tulsa that same wage, AA is going to drag their feet. Houses cost much less and many other expenses are much lower at the maintenance bases - why should AA's employee expenses be the same no matter the city? It's becoming apparent that AA's decision to keep overhaul in-house is dragging down the wages of the line mechanics. Nearly every other airline's line mechanics make more money than at AA. and the one thing those other airlines have in common is that they outsource nearly 100% of their heavy airframe overhaul (so they don't have to overpay employees providing that service).

Yes, you are correct. The union is in a quandary. Do you upset the majority to pay the minority what they are worth? No. That is bad business. The TWU is a business. They would not forsake the overhaul folks to please the minority line maintenance people or they would end up losing certification.

 

[Hopeful]

As I've posted before, AA is probably not opposed to paying Owens and others in NYC, CHI, LAX, MIA or BOS more money - the problem is that paying the line mechanics what they're worth means overpaying several thousand others in flyover country whose work can be performed anywhere in the world at much lower rates than Owens is demanding.

I really doubt this because AA to date has never offered this type of proposal. The TWU would never allow it. They shot down regional pay some time ago. (The union, that is.)

But I foresee something else down the road. This whole premise of doing most in house work as an excuse not to pay like SWA and UPS will run its course.
AA has been used to not paying ANYONE the highest rates in the industry. The TWU has allowed us to only be mediocre at best paywise. As you can see from their last toilet paper alternative proposal, they don't want to give SQUAT to anyone unless they are the elitists at the top of the corporate food chain.

What I see happening is maintenance being spun off as I have stated earlier in another post.
They will tell TUL if you wish to have all those folks stay on the job in TULSA, then "THESE ARE THE NEW WAGE AND WORK RULES, TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT."

As for us on the line, we will be bidding for work on AA's fleet like any other contractor.


AA will never pay anything like SWA and UPS wages unless the pension and retiree medical is eliminated. And even then, I doubt AA will ever be that generous.
As they have shown with the infamous 6 1/2% increase over 6 years, during many of their most profitable quarters, AA is the poster child for class warfare and corporate greed.
And the TWU is a horrible union who's leadership also was exempt from any of the pain endured by its members.
And please spare me the "they preserved jobs."

This is a union will have us work for minimum wage to perserve union dues.