Merger with LCC in the spring

[brokenwrench]

Yes. Delta only has two unionized groups- Pilots and Dispatchers. The rest have a lot of self pride/Delta pride. There is nothing wrong with that until to try to merge them with a us vs. them mentality that you'll find at UA or NW, although NW is much more severe.

Your assumptions are not supported by any empirical data. If you were correct that a union workforce and a non-union one will not merge due to the “us vs. them mentality.â€￾ Then Delta Western should have been DOA.

The facts are that when Delta merged with the mostly union Western there integration when relatively smooth. Hell, most of the ground folks at Western were Teamsters. A couple of raises can go a long way in smoothing labor integration. A fact I hope is not lost on a management team that will lead the new combined airlines.

 

[Rubble]

Brokenwrench I think your missing the context of the discussion. I was talking about the different culture you will find between Delta, a largely non-union work force and the embattled union employees of UA and especially NW. There is nothing empirical about culture. Why do you assume there will be pay raises for the employees of merged airlines? I think the employees of UA & NW are more concerned about how bad they are going to get screwed.

 

[Doc]

As much as United wants a merger, even they will not go with the disaster called LCC.

UA is no prise either! you all make me gag and I am most likly senior to you

 

[Borescope]

UA is no prise either! you all make me gag and I am most likly senior to you

Doc,
you are exactly right, they are no prize. I for one don't believe UA is interested in LCC. What do they bring to the table that would really help UA. The domestic market is over saturated now and UA flies to many of the same destinations. The winner in a hookup between UA and LCC, if anyone, would be LCC. LCC will probably be left out of this round, which is a whole lot better for the employees.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Doc,
you are exactly right, they are no prize. I for one don't believe UA is interested in LCC. What do they bring to the table that would really help UA. The domestic market is over saturated now and UA flies to many of the same destinations. The winner in a hookup between UA and LCC, if anyone, would be LCC. LCC will probably be left out of this round, which is a whole lot better for the employees.

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Borescope.

Your point is well made,.....However, answer me this question please, if you will;

With TILTON absolutely OBSESSED with "doin a deal", What's to prevent him(and the UAL/BOD's) from saying...."Frig IT.......We tried to merge with DL or NW, but they wound up doing their own deal. -------We tried to deal with CO, but they're fighting us tooth and nail to stay solo. ---------------we tried to do a deal with LCC, but our own pilots are stopping that from happening..OR..We tried to do a deal with LCC, but they have been IN-FIGHTING for YEARS now, AND LCC/east VOWS to get a different union all there own, WHICH is different from our pilots.------So now, there is NO other choice, but to sell the company in pieces" !! (By the way, I DO NOT think that UAL dismantling itself is necessary, NOR do I want to see that happen)

But seriously..boroscope, under the "hypo's" I've laid out above, what assurances can you give, to keep UAL from going that route,FULLY knowing of Tiltons GREED, AND the fact, that Tilton KNOWS AA is "available" with checkbook, and pen "at the ready" ???

 

[donttouchthebeauty]

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Borescope.

Your point is well made,.....However, answer me this question please, if you will;

With TILTON absolutely OBSESSED with "doin a deal", What's to prevent him(and the UAL/BOD's) from saying...."Frig IT.......We tried to merge with DL or NW, but they wound up doing their own deal. -------We tried to deal with CO, but they're fighting us tooth and nail to stay solo. ---------------we tried to do a deal with LCC, but our own pilots are stopping that from happening..OR..We tried to do a deal with LCC, but they have been IN-FIGHTING for YEARS now, AND LCC/east VOWS to get a different union all there own, WHICH is different from our pilots.------So now, there is NO other choice, but to sell the company in pieces" !! (By the way, I DO NOT think that UAL dismantling itself is necessary, NOR do I want to see that happen)

But seriously..boroscope, under the "hypo's" I've laid out above, what assurances can you give, to keep UAL from going that route,FULLY knowing of Tiltons GREED, AND the fact, that Tilton KNOWS AA is "available" with checkbook, and pen "at the ready" ???

You seem to be VERY obsessed with this scenario.. UAL will sell assetts just not the ones that you want them too NHBB... You play this scenario daily, and in the meantime AMR is putting for sale signs in the EAGLE yard as we speak... Seriously, UAL is a (now) profitable airline, moreso than that of its peers, which leads me to believe, UAL does not need a hook-up to survive... CAL is not fighting anyone tooth and nail to stay solo, so that is the first thing that needs to be corrected, CAL is actually saying they will NOT be left behind, so what does that tell you... ALSO if UAL sells off MP and MNTC, then like I said before, we will be the wealthiest airline in the industry and there will be no need to sell off anything.... There will be 2 players left behind AMR and LCC....

 

[Borescope]

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But seriously..boroscope, under the "hypo's" I've laid out above, what assurances can you give, to keep UAL from going that route,FULLY knowing of Tiltons GREED, AND the fact, that Tilton KNOWS AA is "available" with checkbook, and pen "at the ready" ???

We all know Tilton's greed is there and he may very well talk the board into a combination with LCC. That's the the only way he's going to cash out early. Lcc bring's nothing, in my mind, to the table for UA. That being said I would think AA would look to mix up with say Alaska, Airtran, and Hawaiian before any deal with LCC.

Even though there is all this press about NW and DL. It's a loooooong way from done.

 

[night_ice]

NHBB,

Do you 'want' to see US go under? From reading your posts, it's UAL selling off pieces of LCC. "LCC gets sold into pieces...." all over and over again. What if it's the other way around? What if UAL gets bought by someone else (doesn't have to be LCC) and UAL is on the chopping block?
I for one do not want anyone to lost their jobs - or any airline sold off in pieces. The way things are looking, anything - and I mean anything- can happen right now. Everyone thinks US is sitting back watching everyone else merge - maybe so. Or, just maybe US is working their own deal. You just never know.

 

[UAL_TECH]

NHBB,

Do you 'want' to see US go under? From reading your posts, it's UAL selling off pieces of LCC. "LCC gets sold into pieces...." all over and over again. What if it's the other way around? What if UAL gets bought by someone else (doesn't have to be LCC) and UAL is on the chopping block?
I for one do not want anyone to lost their jobs - or any airline sold off in pieces. The way things are looking, anything - and I mean anything- can happen right now. Everyone thinks US is sitting back watching everyone else merge - maybe so. Or, just maybe US is working their own deal. You just never know.

I have to agree with night_ice. The original USAIR merger did not make sense then and there is little change in this conclusion today. However, there is a 'For Sale' sign on the Lazy'U and anything is game on how the 'shareholders' will get their value. Truth be known, the 'shareholders' have little (if any say) in how this will all transpire. The 'shareholder' value is pretty exclusive in preferred stock and common stock is fodder for the machine.
Haven’t anyone learned anything yet?
We all lost our a$$ while the executives and BOD remain untouched. Do any of the ‘shareholders’ remember our vote to tie executive compensation with the success of the company and they stated that they would ‘take it under advisement’? WTF, why even give us a vote if you are going to do what you want regardless? (Easy answer, we are lemmings and they know it!)!

Now they give us success sharing and profit sharing because us rats think it is better than nothing,

Whatever happens with mergers/sales/etc… may or may not make sense in anything we could ‘logically’ hypothesize. Think ‘executive’ value and maximum ROI for the players.

Everything else is BS!

One thing for sure, 'US' workers will take it in the A$$ again………. :down:

JMHO,
B) UT

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

NHBB,

Do you 'want' to see US go under? From reading your posts, it's UAL selling off pieces of LCC. "LCC gets sold into pieces...." all over and over again. What if it's the other way around? What if UAL gets bought by someone else (doesn't have to be LCC) and UAL is on the chopping block?
I for one do not want anyone to lost their jobs - or any airline sold off in pieces. The way things are looking, anything - and I mean anything- can happen right now. Everyone thinks US is sitting back watching everyone else merge - maybe so. Or, just maybe US is working their own deal. You just never know.

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'night_ice'

Anyone who really knows me, KNOWS I DO NOT want to see anyone negatively impacted...PERIOD.

With that said, If I pass a comment........even if it's OVER + OVER again,...and the FACTS are all out in the open for ALL to see(Think,.... US is a daily on-going ABORTION,..........SO SAYS there OWN employees), that DOES NOT mean I want BAD to happen !

I'm no Wall street Expert, but It's a SAFE quess that WS would say that airlines like AA/NW/CO are in "less of harms way", than UA/DL or US(For whatever the reason), which is why I DON"T post opinions on AA/NW/CO.(THEY are not saddled with the likes of TILTON/DOUGWEISER) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




donttouchthebeauty,

I AGREE with you, that UAL doesn't need to "do a deal", ...BUT.....and it's a HUGE...."BUT", you're STUCK with GLEN TILTON.

It IS what it IS...beauty !

 

[mrman]

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Borescope.

Your point is well made,.....However, answer me this question please, if you will;

With TILTON absolutely OBSESSED with "doin a deal", What's to prevent him(and the UAL/BOD's) from saying...."Frig IT.......We tried to merge with DL or NW, but they wound up doing their own deal. -------We tried to deal with CO, but they're fighting us tooth and nail to stay solo. ---------------we tried to do a deal with LCC, but our own pilots are stopping that from happening..OR..We tried to do a deal with LCC, but they have been IN-FIGHTING for YEARS now, AND LCC/east VOWS to get a different union all there own, WHICH is different from our pilots.------So now, there is NO other choice, but to sell the company in pieces" !! (By the way, I DO NOT think that UAL dismantling itself is necessary, NOR do I want to see that happen)

But seriously..boroscope, under the "hypo's" I've laid out above, what assurances can you give, to keep UAL from going that route,FULLY knowing of Tiltons GREED, AND the fact, that Tilton KNOWS AA is "available" with checkbook, and pen "at the ready" ???

NHBB I agree with you but it won't just be AA. The Dallas boys AA & WN both have checkbooks waiting to buy pieces. Both want assets planes/routes/gates but not people

 

[Fly]

Then I would guess those checkbooks are going to get pretty dusty waiting. United is NEVER selling itself off in pieces. (if they had planned to do that, they already would have done it). Find a different way to enhance your route structure. <_<

 

[magsau]

Then I would guess those checkbooks are going to get pretty dusty waiting. United is NEVER selling itself off in pieces. (if they had planned to do that, they already would have done it). Find a different way to enhance your route structure. <_<

Too bad MrMan is not familiar with fragmentation clauses in contracts. Of course I would not suspect contractual language is his strong point. If SWA was to buy UAL assets the conversions to SWA standards would require too much cost. They would have to remove the dual FMC's, ACARS printers, install rifle racks and tobacco spittoons to bring them up (down) to SWA specifics.

Why would SWA buy anything from UA? I thought they were taking over the world, one trailer park at a time. Think they want the 777's for the hourly widebody service from Amarillo to Lubbock?

 

[BoeingBoy]

Too bad MrMan is not familiar with fragmentation clauses in contracts.

And just what is the threshold percentage for fragmentation in that UA pilot contract?

Jim

 

[UAL_TECH]

And just what is the threshold percentage for fragmentation in that UA pilot contract?

Jim

Jim,

Be nice or I'll have Edward send you to the Corn Field.....

Take Care,
B) UT