ITRADE
Veteran
Saw in Aviation Daily that Midway plans to be flying aboout 15 - 17 RJs by next April. Where are they coming from? Is Midway''s new financing in place? Is there a J4J deal all set?
Midway update?
- Thread starter ITRADE
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Flufdriver
Senior
- Aug 20, 2002
- 396
- 6
Oh, I'm so relieved...the RJs (REPLACEMENT JETS) are on the way, everything will be fine now. I already see the headlines six months from now. US Airways records record profits. Thanks all to the small jet rescue mission. My only question I still have to DAVE is:
Delta has a ton of RJs
American has a ton of RJs
United has a ton of RJs
Even Dave's old stomping ground CO is losing money with RJs
And they are ALL losing money, doesn't seem like the fix to me.
Southwest doesn't have any RJs and they are making money. Am I missing something here. Maybe instead of paying out these BONUSES to keep Good People here we should get a hold of a headhunter and employ some Southwest people to bring that culture hear. Pay them the BONUS when it begins to work!
Just think..All-Nighter girls in shorts!
Any thoughts?
Delta has a ton of RJs
American has a ton of RJs
United has a ton of RJs
Even Dave's old stomping ground CO is losing money with RJs
And they are ALL losing money, doesn't seem like the fix to me.
Southwest doesn't have any RJs and they are making money. Am I missing something here. Maybe instead of paying out these BONUSES to keep Good People here we should get a hold of a headhunter and employ some Southwest people to bring that culture hear. Pay them the BONUS when it begins to work!
Just think..All-Nighter girls in shorts!
Any thoughts?
Flufdriver
Senior
- Aug 20, 2002
- 396
- 6
US10, I realize they aren't in BK, basically because they had cash reserve built up and assets that they didn't have to sell yet under their present leadership. But yet they are still bleeding millions a day flying RJ's and DAL mainline continues to shrink. I can't wait to take my next vacation to the west coast on an RJ-ER.
I am so sick and tired of people saying that since AAI,WN and JBLU don't have RJ's, then RJ's must not be feasible. Now let me ask you, how many small/midsized markets do AAI,WN and JBLU serve? Every market JBLU serves has at least 1 million people (except BTV which was largely political). WN rarely touches a market under 500,000 (save for a few legacy cities in TX). AAI has ventured into a few smaller markets but now requires massive subsidies in order to enter smaller markets. So if we all follow the WN,JBLU and AAI, there's going to be about 250 cities with no chance of air service. According to the business models of those carriers, smaller markets can go to h*ll.
RJ's aren't perfect and they won't save any airline. But they can make a difference. Yes, CAL and DAL have lots of RJs and are still losing money. They also lost money during the last recession when there wasn't an RJ in sight. However, CAL, NWAC and DAL are the closest to being profitable again (w/o filing for BK, asking for massive concessions or ditching half the fleet).
RJ's are part of that success. RJ's allow DAL for example to keep and expand the DFW hub. There's no way the DFW hub would still be alive w/o RJ's. Yes, DL had to slash out a lot of mainline, but what should DL do? Fly around MD88's with 50 people forever or fly an RJ with 50 people around and make money. RJ's are the only way to keep some of the smaller hubs alive....SLC, DL's DFW, CLE, CVG, PIT, MEM, HP's CMH,etc. This is why RJ's are so important for U....two of U's three hubs are relatively small in O+D terms and w/o RJ's, these hubs cannot effectively compete in the market anymore.
RJ's aren't perfect and they won't save any airline. But they can make a difference. Yes, CAL and DAL have lots of RJs and are still losing money. They also lost money during the last recession when there wasn't an RJ in sight. However, CAL, NWAC and DAL are the closest to being profitable again (w/o filing for BK, asking for massive concessions or ditching half the fleet).
RJ's are part of that success. RJ's allow DAL for example to keep and expand the DFW hub. There's no way the DFW hub would still be alive w/o RJ's. Yes, DL had to slash out a lot of mainline, but what should DL do? Fly around MD88's with 50 people forever or fly an RJ with 50 people around and make money. RJ's are the only way to keep some of the smaller hubs alive....SLC, DL's DFW, CLE, CVG, PIT, MEM, HP's CMH,etc. This is why RJ's are so important for U....two of U's three hubs are relatively small in O+D terms and w/o RJ's, these hubs cannot effectively compete in the market anymore.
wings396
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,672
- 1,122
I do not believe that the RJ's are going to save the world or the company for that matter. A good point is the fact that neither Southwest, Airtran or Jet Blue have them or ever will. All these RJ's are about is screwing the mainline employees out of a decent wage, and fooling the passengers into thinking they are on a REAL JET airplane, when they ride the Express operation. We can all thank DL for starting this crap with comair...soon we can work airplanes bigger than the F-28 was for poverty wages...but at least the unions will still have us as dues paying members.....THANKS...
Flufdriver
Senior
- Aug 20, 2002
- 396
- 6
US10, maybe this is a great time to open that hardware store next to HOMEDEPOT, that way I'll feel I'm still in the airline business. Right now I need investors...what was that groups name from Texas?
C
chipmunn
Guest
Itrade:
Midway has approximately 35 50-seat RJs in storage that I believe are parked on the ramp in Clarksburg, WV and Victorville, CA. The company will not have a problem growing to its authorized 18 US Express RJs or adding additional positions per the option to operate 48 additional aircraft.
Chip
Midway has approximately 35 50-seat RJs in storage that I believe are parked on the ramp in Clarksburg, WV and Victorville, CA. The company will not have a problem growing to its authorized 18 US Express RJs or adding additional positions per the option to operate 48 additional aircraft.
Chip
OP
ITRADE
Veteran
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- #11
[P]OK, got some info which seems at odds with your claims.[/P]
[P]According to Sept. 30, 2002, [EM]Aviation Daily[/EM], Midway parked 24 CRJs when it suspended ops (the first time). An AC subsidiary is operating 10 CRJs - they're actually owned by GECAS. Air Whiskey operates two and plans on taking four more for AirTran Express. Mesa operates two for Frontier.[/P]
[P]So, with Air Wisconsin's take, that makes 18 CRJs out to other carriers - leaving a grand total of 6 available for Midway. Not too impressive.[/P]
[P]According to Sept. 30, 2002, [EM]Aviation Daily[/EM], Midway parked 24 CRJs when it suspended ops (the first time). An AC subsidiary is operating 10 CRJs - they're actually owned by GECAS. Air Whiskey operates two and plans on taking four more for AirTran Express. Mesa operates two for Frontier.[/P]
[P]So, with Air Wisconsin's take, that makes 18 CRJs out to other carriers - leaving a grand total of 6 available for Midway. Not too impressive.[/P]
OP
ITRADE
Veteran
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- #12
[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 9/17/2002 12
55 PM wings396 wrote:
[P]I do not believe that the RJ's are going to save the world or the company for that matter. A good point is the fact that neither Southwest, Airtran or Jet Blue have them or ever will. [/P]
[P]----------------[/P][/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P]Guess Wings is eating crow on that statement.[/P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 9/17/2002 12
55 PM wings396 wrote:[P]I do not believe that the RJ's are going to save the world or the company for that matter. A good point is the fact that neither Southwest, Airtran or Jet Blue have them or ever will. [/P]
[P]----------------[/P][/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P]Guess Wings is eating crow on that statement.[/P]
Chip,
Two issues arise with Midway, first that they still need to come up with the remaining financing to resume operations, and second that they will have to find/train pilots to operate the RJ's
Midway was an RJ operator, but that was a long time ago (long in terms of it being pre 9/11 and of a sufficent period of time that almost all RJ quailified pilots have since moved on). That saddles them with the added cost/time of having to transition whoever still remains from the B737.
Here's a question for you, has their been one peep at Airways about availible RJ positions at Midway being ready to bid into and to train for? If they are supposed to be up and flying anytime now there should have been such a thing.
I do not fault Dave for this move as it was a cheap price for additional slots, but I am no longer holding my breath that Midway will fly again.
In a related issue, It will be interesting to see if the Mesa pilots are willing to accept Jets for Jobs on their property. I think US Airways is going to have a difficult time trying to convince independant carriers that JFJ is worth the trouble.
Its one thing for the Wholly Owned carriers to consider it when we have no jets and we get a flow thru in return for JFJ, but I think elsewhere it may be different
Two issues arise with Midway, first that they still need to come up with the remaining financing to resume operations, and second that they will have to find/train pilots to operate the RJ's
Midway was an RJ operator, but that was a long time ago (long in terms of it being pre 9/11 and of a sufficent period of time that almost all RJ quailified pilots have since moved on). That saddles them with the added cost/time of having to transition whoever still remains from the B737.
Here's a question for you, has their been one peep at Airways about availible RJ positions at Midway being ready to bid into and to train for? If they are supposed to be up and flying anytime now there should have been such a thing.
I do not fault Dave for this move as it was a cheap price for additional slots, but I am no longer holding my breath that Midway will fly again.
In a related issue, It will be interesting to see if the Mesa pilots are willing to accept Jets for Jobs on their property. I think US Airways is going to have a difficult time trying to convince independant carriers that JFJ is worth the trouble.
Its one thing for the Wholly Owned carriers to consider it when we have no jets and we get a flow thru in return for JFJ, but I think elsewhere it may be different
