More Questions Than Answers

Virtually every other stakeholder has another place to take it's business except the pilots and all parties concerned know this. Thus, it is better (in the mind of non-pilot stakeholders) to use fear to wear down the pilots and have them absorb a disproportionate share of the cuts. No other party is as dependent on Delta's success as the pilots, so they are willing to gamble that the pilots fold.

I think the risk of that bet far outwieghs the reward, but if it incrementally helps to eliminate ALPA, they (management and those aligned with it) probably feel it's worth it.
 
Luvn,
Sadly you are right. But I still contend that ALPA wasn't feeling so powerless 3 years ago when it accepted 25% pay raises on behalf of its members to be followed by even more while other carriers' pilots had already absorbed one round and were facing a second or third.
 
luvn737s said:
Virtually every other stakeholder has another place to take it's business except the pilots and all parties concerned know this. Thus, it is better (in the mind of non-pilot stakeholders) to use fear to wear down the pilots and have them absorb a disproportionate share of the cuts. No other party is as dependent on Delta's success as the pilots, so they are willing to gamble that the pilots fold.

I think the risk of that bet far outwieghs the reward, but if it incrementally helps to eliminate ALPA, they (management and those aligned with it) probably feel it's worth it.
[post="184147"][/post]​
First off, the pilots have given NOTHING to help reorganize. Jerry has drawn a line in the sand and ALPA will give voluntarily or thru the courts. As a F/A, we have gone to a blended pay and to pref. bidding and guess what? We survived and word is there is another 10-20% paycut coming. And you know what? Most of us know for us to turn it around, we ALL need to sacrifice.This is not about what we think we are worth, but what the market will bear. Why did Jerry not accept ALPA's 23%? As compared to the carriers who have not taken cuts, it simply keeps us at a competitive disadvantage. Anyone who knows anything about business, this should not be difficult to fathom...
 
What's so hard about taking half a loaf? Unless of course you are planning for the pilots to absorb the whole thing anyhow.

I really think it's absurd to expect the pilots to get behind a plan if no one else (other stakeholders, especially lenders) is willing to. It kind of sounds like a bad plan.
 
WorldTraveler said:
Luvn,
Sadly you are right. But I still contend that ALPA wasn't feeling so powerless 3 years ago when it accepted 25% pay raises on behalf of its members to be followed by even more while other carriers' pilots had already absorbed one round and were facing a second or third.
[post="184204"][/post]​
How many pilot strikes has DAL gone through?

I would say a pay raise ( or was it the reinstitution of previous cuts?) wasn't the only blunder DAL management can call their own. No one holds a gun to management's head when a contract is signed. They have to weigh the risk of strike against the cost of the demands. Airline CEO's that earn their bonus drive down both.
 
luvn737s said:
What's so hard about taking half a loaf? Unless of course you are planning for the pilots to absorb the whole thing anyhow.

I really think it's absurd to expect the pilots to get behind a plan if no one else (other stakeholders, especially lenders) is willing to. It kind of sounds like a bad plan.
[post="184255"][/post]​
Dude nobody wants a paycut and no plan makes sense when its your pay or lack thereof thats part of the turn around plan but guess what, this is real and its going to happen whether your on board or not. Welcome to the world of concessions.
 
Luvn,
Actually, I believe DL pilots struck in days before deregulation - 50s or 60s. You may remember, however, that DALPA engaged in work slowdown (or refused to work OT) several years ago at Christmas that cost lots of money and passenger goodwill. Yes, DL gave in long before it had too but that has typically been DL's labor relations policy - treat its employees much better than the competition.
I still repeat, DL's pilots have been the highest paid in the industry by a very wide margin for going on three years (it took a little while for UA to start rolling back its pilots ill-gotten gains). No pilot at Delta should be surprised at what is coming or at the size of it. DL pilots and all DL employees will still very favorable salaries and benefits compared with other airlines.

It's time for the pilots, non-pilot employees, and debtholders to belly up to the bar.
 
Vikedog64 said:
First off, the pilots have given NOTHING to help reorganize.
[post="184244"][/post]​

Have another glass of
kool-aid.jpg
! The pilots did offer 23% and your dumba** CEO turned it down. This is only going to help the pilots when DL files BK. It will show the judge they tried to negotiate in good faith and DL did not. The non union groups will be the ones who will suffer the most in BK court, not the pilots! :lol:

Take all of your anti union, co-workers and have yourselves a Kool-Aid party.
 
23% obviously wasn't enough and still vastly more than what other airline pilots make. Don't worry, the AFL-CIO will find some other suckers to screw in order to make the lost revenue from airline employees.

You can see that US' pilots OFFER did them a whole lot in warding off the 1113 filing - just exactly what DL pilots needed to see. Let's calculate how much more DL pilots now make than US pilots; now, since US is a legacy carrier with a similar route system on the east coast, if DL were to make a comparison to the judge between DL and US pilot salaries, I think he/she might be forced to listen. DL competes directly against US more than any other carrier.
 
TheDog2004 said:
Holly is always pro-union, but her takes are quite informed and better than almost every other airline analyst out there.

Just put on your union b/s detectors and she reads fine. I think she has some good points in her take.
[post="183958"][/post]​


Holly is just an entertainer. She is like a fortune teller that can tell a good story.
 
Fly said:
Curious.......United keeps adding routes, so how do you figure they are shrinking? Shedding unprofitable routes is good business sense. Delta has shed Dallas, isn't that shrinking?
[post="184091"][/post]​


Actually, it is not. Delta actually added roughly 6% to its daily departures when it closed DFW.
 
WorldTraveler said:
23% obviously wasn't enough and still vastly more than what other airline pilots make. Don't worry, the AFL-CIO will find some other suckers to screw in order to make the lost revenue from airline employees.

Get your facts straight. 23% would put them below Northwest, below Southwest for comparable equipment, and roughly even with Continental.