My My My.....

The Ronin

Senior
Sep 17, 2002
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Airwise News
Monday September 6, 2004
Reuters
ALPA Considers Pension Shift
September 3, 2004

The nation's largest airline pilots' union is considering moving away from the traditional pension system that labor groups have fiercely defended for years, but is now in crisis, the union's president says.

Willingness by the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA) to weigh other pension options at several airlines represents a new strategy by the most powerful airline union, whose actions on contract matters often influence other labor groups.

It is also a recognition that old-style pensions, which have been a cornerstone of contracts at the biggest airlines for decades and guarantee a set payout, may no longer be feasible for all workers.

ALPA President Duane Woerth said in an interview that the union's leaders are considering a two-part strategy.

The first step would ensure older workers and retirees for all airline unions receive what they have been promised under the endangered defined benefit system. After that, ALPA would consider negotiating pension changes for its other, younger members.

"We don't have to have this crisis," Woerth said of dangerously underfunded pension plans that could be terminated and replaced with less generous ones at bankrupt United Airlines and other struggling carriers if they were to enter bankruptcy. "This nightmare does not have to happen."

At issue are defined pension plans, products from a by-gone era of corporate generosity that rely on hefty company contributions. They are prized by unions for the security they offer, but have been disappearing over the past two decades in favor of self-directed 401(k) programs and other investment options that push more risk onto employees.

The federal agency that insures pensions estimates that defined pension plans at several airlines are underfunded by USD$31 billion. United's outstanding liability alone is USD$8.3 billion.

Pension costs at discount carriers are much lower because they have cheaper pension plans.

CONGRESS WOULD BE ASKED TO HELP

Retirement plans that are terminated by an airline are turned over to the government, which sets annual limits on how much it is prepared to pay.

Pension plan recipients at United would lose nearly USD$2 billion in promised benefits if the airline were to end all four plans covering 120,000 workers and retirees, the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp. estimates. The federal PBGC insures corporate pensions.

Woerth said maintaining existing benefits for older workers and retirees would require congressional action to change pension funding law to let airlines stretch certain required contributions over several years. This would reduce underfunding and give cash-strapped airlines breathing room.

Congress approved a similar measure in the spring, but the benefit ends next year. Woerth said ALPA would only proceed to the second part of the plan if lawmakers were to act.

Then, ALPA, which represents aviators at all of the oldest brand-name US airlines except American Airlines, would consider negotiating changes to their pension plans.

"At some point it becomes a mixture," Woerth said of pension options that ALPA units at different carriers would have to negotiate. "Some may decide to move completely away (from defined benefits)."

Pilots have the most to lose if pension plans are terminated because they are the highest paid airline workers.

But Woerth's rescue strategy may be too late for employees at United, which is in a desperate struggle to cut costs and find investors. And US Airways, which terminated its pilots' defined benefit plan in 2003 to get out of bankruptcy, is scrambling to avert another Chapter 11 filing.

It is also unclear if Congress would again offer to help the airlines after approving a string of relief measures for the industry over the past three years.

Big passenger airlines represented by ALPA include United, US Airways, Delta Air Lines, Continental Airlines and Northwest Airlines.

Who said Pilots were stupid...oh, that's right... me. But it looks like somebody recognizes the writing on the wall...hence I apologize :shock:
But Congress is NOT going to like anybody in aviation pretty soon. Then again...it's their screwed up system in the first place. Hey...I just work here :up:
 
As I understand this press release (i.e., reading between the lines)...

"We, the most highly compensated airline employees, are ready, willing, and able to throw the younger pilots and other employees overboard as long as Congress will change the applicable law to ensure that I get every dime I'm entitled to."

Is that a fair assessment of the situation? Before I get drawn and quartered, please know that I do not believe that every pilot thinks this way. But this press release, on top of what the ALPA MEC appears to be doing at US Airways right now, makes me think that ALPA is a lot more interested in representing the interests of the senior pilots to the detriment of everyone else.
 
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jimntx said:
As I understand this press release (i.e., reading between the lines)...

"We, the most highly compensated airline employees, are ready, willing, and able to throw the younger pilots and other employees overboard as long as Congress will change the applicable law to ensure that I get every dime I'm entitled to."

Is that a fair assessment of the situation? Before I get drawn and quartered, please know that I do not believe that every pilot thinks this way. But this press release, on top of what the ALPA MEC appears to be doing at US Airways right now, makes me think that ALPA is a lot more interested in representing the interests of the senior pilots to the detriment of everyone else.
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Wow.....by golly, I think you have it 'ol chap" :D
 
Back when I made the decision to get out of the AF and go to the airlines my dad (ex-AF fighter pilot,Delta Captain) told me the golden rule of ALPA--They will only make a decision if it directly benefits the widebody Captains.

Nothing I saw in my 3 yrs at UAL changed that, although they were very generous in furlough assesments to cover medical--that meant a lot to my family.
 
...I think they're doing the best thing they can do. Scrap pensions for people too young to truly be counting on them. Move those people to what the rest of the country's workforce is doing. Conversely, fight for the people that are at a point where turing over a new leaf is too much. They have based their life on the pension, let them move on with that. If you've joined a company in the last 5-10 years and think a pension is something to be counting on I'm sure you're thinking that social security will be there for you too. It won't be. Time to face that reality...
 
I think you are seeing the end of ALPA as an organization. Soon all the senior "I've got mine" will be gone and all that will be left are the young ones that ALPA sacraficed along the way to feathering their nest. We will remember
 
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bluetoad said:
I think you are seeing the end of ALPA as an organization. Soon all the senior "I've got mine" will be gone and all that will be left are the young ones that ALPA sacraficed along the way to feathering their nest. We will remember
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Stop it....you're making me tingle all over :up:
 
Next thing you know, ALPA will be reversing their long-standing opposition to age 60 retirements. :rolleyes:
 
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US Airways Pilots Union Reject Proposal
Tue Sep 7, 2004 06:05 AM ET

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Leaders of US Airways Group Inc.'s pilots union late Monday rejected the carrier's latest contract proposal, a setback to the No. 7 U.S. airline's attempt to avoid a second bankruptcy filing.

Union spokesman Jack Stephan said in a statement, posted on the Air Line Pilots Association's Web site, the union's 12-member executive committee rejected a motion to send the Arlington, Virginia-based carrier's latest proposal to membership for ratification.

Since emerging from Chapter 11 in the spring of 2003, US Airways has been hurt by high fuel prices and competition from low-cost carriers. The airline seeks $295 million of pilots' union concessions, $800 million of union givebacks, and $1.5 billion of cost savings. It faces a possible default at the end of this month on its U.S.-guaranteed loans.

Stephan said the executive committee meeting adjourned at 10:30 p.m. EDT. He urged pilots concerned about the "ramifications" of the decision to call their local representatives. US Airways was not immediately available for comment.

Yes I know this is about US and is probably all over their board BUT....I post this on ours with the question....Have they had enough??? Is this the bottom for concessions (which will mean something for everyone)??? Or is this just mucked up ALPA crap and their going to pull the IAM cliche'.....We dont really think you know what you voted for the FIRST time...Here, try again :up:
 

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