Negotiations update?

[strikeforce]

It was also a craft/profession killer. Had it been voted in it would have spread through the industry like cancer and the twu would have been to blame and those who voted YES. Fortunately enough the membership saw the t/a for what it was while the twu now looks for a window to crawl out of after they painted themselves into a corner after having endorsed it.

What is the membership waiting for? The twu to bring back another concessionary contract? More empty slogans? As long as the international has a hand in the negotiation process the membership will be harmed. It might not be YOU this time but eventually a contract will effect YOU. The opportunity to have a true democratic process that directly effects your profession is NOW. Sign an AMP Authorization card.


GO AMP!

let's face reality TUL rejected the TA not because they felt it was a craft/profession killer, they already did that with OSM/SRP, but because the Line was getting a better deal. when the union wanted to find out why we rejected it, where did the union go? not ORD, DFW, MIA, JFK, LAX.....no they went toTUL. It's all about appeasing the numbers. The only thing that's going to change in the next TA is the way we cut the pie, and not the size of the pie. Ken, I'm all for displacing the TWU with AMP, but I don't think the structure of negotiations will change....because TUL will always control the knife that cuts the pie. For AMP to be successful, they somehow need to find a way to wrestle that knife away from TUL and put it in the hands of the Line.

 

[odie01]

let's face reality TUL rejected the TA not because they felt it was a craft/profession killer, they already did that with OSM/SRP, but because the Line was getting a better deal. when the union wanted to find out why we rejected it, where did the union go? not ORD, DFW, MIA, JFK, LAX.....no they went toTUL. It's all about appeasing the numbers. The only thing that's going to change in the next TA is the way we cut the pie, and not the size of the pie. Ken, I'm all for displacing the TWU with AMP, but I don't think the structure of negotiations will change....because TUL will always control the knife that cuts the pie. For AMP to be successful, they somehow need to find a way to wrestle that knife away from TUL and put it in the hands of the Line.

The twu international is an outside negative influence in our negotiation process with the company, always has been and always will be, unless we do something about it. Go Amp

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

let's face reality TUL rejected the TA not because they felt it was a craft/profession killer, they already did that with OSM/SRP, but because the Line was getting a better deal. when the union wanted to find out why we rejected it, where did the union go? not ORD, DFW, MIA, JFK, LAX.....no they went toTUL. It's all about appeasing the numbers. The only thing that's going to change in the next TA is the way we cut the pie, and not the size of the pie. Ken, I'm all for displacing the TWU with AMP, but I don't think the structure of negotiations will change....because TUL will always control the knife that cuts the pie. For AMP to be successful, they somehow need to find a way to wrestle that knife away from TUL and put it in the hands of the Line.

strikeforce,

The twu has always played the line against Tulsa and vice versa. With AMP the proverbial "pie" will be negotiated by AMP National who in turn answer to the membership. The AMP Constitution spells out how we will be organized. True enough Tulsa has the big numbers but the twu NEVER educated the membership that the Line needs Overhaul and Overhaul needs the Line. Togther we provide a world class product and should focus our collective energy towards the future not against each other. When you have people willing "to kiss the ring" so they may drink from "the Black Chalice of Greed" once they get APPOINTED there will always be those individuals who do not look out for the whole.

The twu is relying on Tulsa AMTs to continue to believe that man behind the curtain. But each concessionary contract - t/a blows the curtain aside and exposes the twu's true nature.

 

[frontline]

Ken,

I very much like the accountability in the AMP constitution but what I keep coming back to is what is AMP going to be able to do any differently than TWU? How will a smaller union with less political power get us a better deal than what has already been offered? I'm not seeing it.

 

[Interested]

Ken,

I very much like the accountability in the AMP constitution but what I keep coming back to is what is AMP going to be able to do any differently than TWU? How will a smaller union with less political power get us a better deal than what has already been offered? I'm not seeing it.

And with so many Line mechanics wanting to divide O/H & line, how would AMP deal with that?

 

[787nightmare]

Ken,

"I very much like the accountability in the AMP constitution but what I keep coming back to is what is AMP going to be able to do any differently than TWU? How will a smaller union with less political power get us a better deal than what has already been offered? I'm not seeing it."

and, strikeforce: "And with so many Line mechanics wanting to divide O/H & line, how would AMP deal with that?"


Honestly...can you guys see AMP being any worse?
C'mon, really now...

And frankly, what "political power" & larger number of members has the TWU used to it's advantage?
That's actually made a positive gain for the professioanl AMTs at AA...

 

[strikeforce]

and, strikeforce: "And with so many Line mechanics wanting to divide O/H & line, how would AMP deal with that?"


Honestly...can you guys see AMP being any worse?
C'mon, really now...

And frankly, what "political power" & larger number of members has the TWU used to it's advantage?
That's actually made a positive gain for the professioanl AMTs at AA...

I don't think AMP will be any worse than the TWU. However, we can't ignore the fact that TUL has the numbers, and by using Roberts Rules of Order, can dictate how things are arranged in their favor. Therefore, when it comes to negotiations TUL will always control how the proverbial "pie" is cut. Even with AMP. The problem I have is we all pay the same union dues, but we all don't get equal say in negotiations. It's not an equal playing field. TUL should not have a say in what the company values from the line, and vice versa. For example, if the going rate for an overhaul mechanic is $25 per hour, and $50 per hour for Line mechanics, I don't believe TUL should reject a TA because the line is getting a better deal, and vice versa.
It's not about dividing OH & Line, it's about negotiating for ALL. It's about putting everyones hand on the knife that cuts the proverbial pie!

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ------- Well, there is one way it could be done. Give each station just one vote on a T.A.----- An up, or down vote. That way a MCI line vote would have just as much input as TUL.-------- Now there's an idea!----- But than again, that wouldn't fly, because even under AMP, the boys in TUL wouldn't give up that power. :unsure:

 

[strikeforce]

<_< ------- Well, there is one way it could be done. Give each station just one vote on a T.A.----- An up, or down vote. That way a MCI line vote would have just as much input as TUL.-------- Now there's an idea!----- But than again, that wouldn't fly, because even under AMP, the boys in TUL wouldn't give up that power. :unsure:

Great Idea! It's been tried before, and TUL used a roll call vote to shoot it down. Robert's Rule of Order applys whether it's the TWU or AMP. So, when it pertains to negotiations...How is AMP going to shift the negotiation structure so it's equal for ALL? Anybody?

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ------- Hey!------ You wanted a suggestion on how to get the job done, I gave you one! Now it's up to you to eihter run with it, or come up with something better!!!

 

[Hopeful]

Great Idea! It's been tried before, and TUL used a roll call vote to shoot it down. Robert's Rule of Order applys whether it's the TWU or AMP. So, when it pertains to negotiations...How is AMP going to shift the negotiation structure so it's equal for ALL? Anybody?

I believe the "roll call" vote would not exist with AMP.
50% +1 of the members that vote.
Plain and simple!

 

[strikeforce]

I believe the "roll call" vote would not exist with AMP.
50% +1 of the members that vote.
Plain and simple!

The roll call vote is part of Robert's Rules of Order. It is incorporated in AMP's Constitution, and used by most labor organizations to govern how they conduct business. In prior negotiations, the roll call vote was used by TUL to shootdown TA's that didn't benefit TUL.
Again, in a perfect world, one station-one vote! Not with TUL having the numbers. The Line stations will always have a disadvantage in negotiations because of that threat. The structure of the process should benefit ALL, and not just TUL.

 

[787nightmare]

Strike, I hear ya and I know exactly what you're talking about.
One thing that's interesting, we're not hearing too much about/from AFW??

I know TULE is THE base for AA. But I'm wondering what the AFW guys have to say about all this.
This is a real problem for the AA mechanics. I've made my opinion known about AAs position on base maintenance.
I've also spoke on the issues affecting the line mechanics. What to do here...

I really don't feel like AA would have much of a problem paying the line mechanics a hefty wage increase.
But they're going to remain firm on there position of not over-paying OH mechanics. They feel like it would put them at a cost disadvantage on AAs heavys.

If they were in a town other than TUL, they'd probably have to reckon to deal with the mechanics as a whole.
But they know full well the benefits of being in TUL-as do the snakes running the TWU.

 

[FWAAA]

... I agree - concessions from Arpey and Horton ...

I agree as well. And the AMR board of directors also agrees.

That's the beauty of executive compensation programs where the guaranteed cash salary component is a mere 15% to 20% of their possible annual compensation. That leaves 85% of their pay at risk. Essentially, the executives have already agreed to much lower pay when performance is dismal (like the past three years) and substantially higher pay when their objective performance targets are met (like in 2005-07).

 

[AANOTOK]

I agree as well. And the AMR board of directors also agrees.

That's the beauty of executive compensation programs where the guaranteed cash salary component is a mere 15% to 20% of their possible annual compensation. That leaves 85% of their pay at risk. Essentially, the executives have already agreed to much lower pay when performance is dismal (like the past three years) and substantially higher pay when their objective performance targets are met (like in 2005-07).

FWAAA, so exactly what was their "non-risk" compensation last year?