NEW CITY: BOSTON

DL has converted CVG mostly into their commuter hub. Since WN is already in DTW and now MSP, I'm wondering if CVG is next dot in the system.

Me, too.

WN looks for markets that are underserved and/or over-priced, but another thing they look at is how will any new city fit into their overall current network. I think right now they seem to be looking for new cities that they can link to MDW and BWI - 2 airports where Southwest still has enough gates to accommodate more growth.

Even with the new flights from MDW to both BOS and LGA, MDW will be down to 209 daily departures by the fall, yet they have something like 29 gates at MDW.

Even with the flights from BWI to both BOS and LGA, BWI will be down to 158 daily departures by the fall. They currently have 26 gates in BWI, which is too many for the number of departures they have now. That's probably why WN is looking to give up 6 of those gates when their lease at BWI expires in June.

ATL, CLT and CVG have all been popular choices in other "where will the next new city be?" threads, so for each of those three cities I looked at the O&D info to BWI & Chicago (including both MDW and ORD). I looked at distance, daily passengers and average fare computed on a per-mile basis based on DOT's Q2 2008 Consumer Airfare Report.

For the sake of simplicity, I've assumed that any new city would have an equal number of flights to both MDW and BWI - like BOS will.

ATL-BWI - 576 miles
1,625 daily pax - avg. fare 29.8 cents/mile

ATL-MDW - 606 miles
3,105 daily pax - avg. fare 30.1 cents/mile

5 round trips in each market would give WN 10 roundtrips with an average stage length of 591 miles.

Both routes have a healthy number of daily travelers, but neither route is particularly overpriced.


CLT-BWI - 361 miles
803 daily pax - avg. fare 44.4 cents/mile

CLT-MDW - 599 miles
1,276 daily pax - avg. fare 32.4 cents/mile

5 round trips in each market would give WN 10 roundtrips with an average stage length of 480 miles.

The CLT-BWI/MDW fares are a bit higher per mile than the same routes out of ATL, but still not terribly overpriced.

CVG-BWI - 430 miles
95 daily pax - avg. fare 79.3 cents/mile

CVG-MDW - 264 miles
430 daily pax - avg. fare $1.19 per mile

5 round trips in each market would give WN 10 roundtrips with an average stage length of 347 miles.

Not nearly as many daily passengers out of CVG to BWI and MDW, but then again, look at the average fares. Plus choosing CVG as the next new city means you can do your 10 daily roundtrips to/from MDW & BWI with fewer aircraft than the same routes out of CLT or ATL due to an overall lower avg. stage length.

So my guesses, in order would be

1. CVG
2. CLT
3. ATL

The only thing I'm not sure about is whether or not MDW can really handle any more flights. As I understand from this December 2008 post on FlyerTalk from a WN ramper at MDW, even though there are plenty of gates for additional flights, the ground infrastructure at MDW is strained already. Not sure if that is still the case, (or if it will be the case come this fall.)
 
Count me among those who thought CVG was the answer, and got surprised by LGA.

The "problem" for CVG, as I've heard/debated with co-workers (none involved in the decision process, to be clear) falls into two main points:

--CVG is on the Kentucky side of the river, with icing, bridge problems and away from most of the population.

--CVG enjoys interstate service to three, nearby, SWA cities: SDF, IND, and CMH.

What the LGA decision told me, was I was still thinking like "old SWA" and we're obviously no longer restricted in our thinking.

IMHO.....

So my guesses, in order would be

1. CVG
2. CLT
3. ATL
 
--CVG enjoys interstate service to three, nearby, SWA cities: SDF, IND, and CMH.


I know that one of the arguments against CVG is that it would cannibalize their current business at IND, SDF, and CMH, but I think it would really depend on what nonstop markets WN would consider serving from CVG. If WN started CVG-MDW & CVG-BWI, wouldn't most (say 70%) of the passengers be point-to point travelers? i.e. their final destination would be MDW or BWI?

I can see being in CVG and going to one of the other nearby WN airports to go to a city that's further away, like LAS, PHX or Florida, so SDF, CMH, and IND might lose some of those passengers, but most of the potential short-haul travelers out of CVG that WN would likely be targeting aren't doing that.

I can't imagine that many people in CVG right now who need to go to Chicago or Baltimore is getting there by driving to SDF, IND or CMH first, then flying on to MDW or BWI from there. They might as well just drive the whole way, which is probably what most of them do.

What the LGA decision told me, was I was still thinking like "old SWA" and we're obviously no longer restricted in our thinking.

Yes, I think WN's old strategy of "Let's fly into secondary cities" ended in 2001, when they chose ORF over RIC. And if you remember at the time WN even said they'd probably serve RIC sometime in the future and that was 8 years ago. Still no WN at RIC. With the exception of RSW, every other new city opened after ORF has either been a strong business market (LGA & BOS) and/or another legacy carrier's hub (PHL, PIT, DEN, IAD, SFO and MSP)
 
:up: :up: Yes and Y'All will soon find BOS prefers full-service airlines JetBlue And Delta! Boston isn't PVD or MHT! Good luck at Logan, you will have, for the first time ever, REAL competition.
GO JETBLUE!!!!
You're kidding.. right? Delta.. maybe.. but B6? They're a fairly new entrant carrier themselves. BOS is not a hub for any one carrier and SWA will be quite successful there. B6 knows this and now will flood the market with another money losing route. Good luck SWA
 
You're kidding.. right? Delta.. maybe.. but B6? They're a fairly new entrant carrier themselves. BOS is not a hub for any one carrier and SWA will be quite successful there. B6 knows this and now will flood the market with another money losing route. Good luck SWA

Really? JetBlue is Boston Logans #1 carrier for passengers boarded, and I believe #1 in daily non-stop cities served at 32 destinations. JetBlue is also the largest carrier BOS to Florida market.
JetBlue is more of a heavy hitter out of Boston than you think.
 
Really? JetBlue is Boston Logans #1 carrier for passengers boarded, and I believe #1 in daily non-stop cities served at 32 destinations. JetBlue is also the largest carrier BOS to Florida market.
JetBlue is more of a heavy hitter out of Boston than you think.
Any carrier could fly the p2p routes that B6 does out of BOS. Especially Florida! They do not have a monopoly or a hub there.
 

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