New Traffic Patterns PHL

[Art at ISP]

Both Saturday and last night, I noticed that PHL was landing 27L and departing 27R, which is opposite the norm.

I realize it happens occasionally, but is this permanent or staying for a while? It seems somewhat inefficient, since 27R departures still make the left turn to 255 degrees as soon as possible, and if there was a missed approach to 27L that could be dicy.

Just wondering if anyone has any information...

 

[robbedagain]

it was probably switched so that as much of the wind is into the nose of the aircraft for takeoff and landing

 

[Art at ISP]

Robbed,

You're right, but the switch was that the runway usually used for takeoff is being used for landing, etc...

I'm a pilot as well so I know about the wind thing 🙂


I was just curious as it was being done both Saturday and Monday.

 

[flyin2low]

You're right, but the switch was that the runway usually used for takeoff is being used for landing, etc...

The 27R departures fly a 240 hdg until 3.0 DME thence a 255 hdg.

I was wondering why they are doing it too. My only thought is that it occurs in the late afternoon when the Internationals are arriving. It is convenient for them to use 27L(longer) and come around the back side to the 'A' West terminal.

 

[phllax]

When I flew in on 2/17 we landed on 27L. It really surprised me, and thought we were doing a missed approach on 27R due to winds.

I think they primarily did it to get better arrival flows, especially if they are going to be using 17 regularly for arrivals. 17 and 27L do not intersect. It could also be a new pattern for winter ops when they have to de-ice, although the main de-icing pad is down past 27R.

They might also be doing it to further help with noise abatement. Using 27R requires the turn to 255 sooner than using 27L, and would then be higher when flying over the residential areas south of the airport.

When we landed on 27L we taxied off all the way past the end of 27R near the de-icing pad and down past cargo city and A-West. The taxi was very quick, and only stopped to let someone out of the B-C alley.

On departure we also used 27R for take-off and again we had a very quick taxi at 4:10pm on a Monday.

 

[algflyr]

I was told the reason is that they can have more operations per hour during the pushes. This keeps the numbers "up" in PHL so they don't lose funding I guess. ATC was really pissed when the 170's started parking on the C gates. They used to land 35 and now that they park on the C gates, 35 is not used by them anymore. With those extra planes now also using the 27's, it's better landing 27L because they don't have to cross ground traffic across the active runway. That came from one of our safety guys at a rescent ATC meeting...

 

[Art at ISP]

alg,

Thanks for the thoughtful and thorough answer. That actually makes sense, which surprises me for PHL--I wonder why they didn't do it sooner?

PS you didn't fly 4266 last night did you?

Thanks for all you do....

 

[FLYAWAY]

PHL uses 27L and 26 for landings during PRM operations. 27R is used for departures. I've done that a couple of times and the departures appear to flow better while mainline arrivals on 27L have an increased taxi in time. At least it's something different...

 

[retiredman]

PHL uses 27L and 26 for landings during PRM operations. 27R is used for departures. I've done that a couple of times and the departures appear to flow better while mainline arrivals on 27L have an increased taxi in time. At least it's something different...

PRM at PHL has ben OTS for at least 3/4 months, hope to have back up and running this spring with the arrival of some "new" equipment. Primary reason for this configuration is to keep traffic from crossing an active runway, been a long time coming.

 

[A320 Driver]

Also the departures don't have to cross the landing runway anymore. I like the new flow.

A320 Driver B)

 

[Art at ISP]

So one can assume this change is relatively permanent? If it's so efficient like I said before, one wonders why it wasn't done long ago.

I hope the on time numbers come up as a result.

My best to you all....

 

[Travelpro72]

Well just being a lil' coke slinger f/a here it seems that this pattern seems to keep the arriving a/c away from the departing traffic almost in a circle without any crossing. Also I have noticed though not sure its the norm that the a/c on 27R waits to takeoff until the a/c landing on 27L is ready to cross the threshhold. Is this in case the a/c landing doesn't interfere with the a/c on 27R taking off in the event of a go-around? It honestly seems to be much quicker than taxiing up and down the airport waiting to t/o. We that notice in the cabin LIKE IT.

 

[FlyOnWall]

alg,

Thanks for the thoughtful and thorough answer. That actually makes sense, which surprises me for PHL--I wonder why they didn't do it sooner?

PS you didn't fly 4266 last night did you?

Thanks for all you do....

algflyer flies the E170 for US Airways. That flight number is Piedmont, a dash 8.

 

[bwipilot]

One added fact: the pattern change was requested by a new entrant to the PHL market to speed things up and reduce ramp congestion.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Since I've only been thru PHL once with the new flow, a couple of questions:

- any comments on how it's working during the evening international push? That's always seemed to be the worst for waiting in line for departure when using the old west flow.

- have they reversed the runways for east flow? 09L for landing and 09R for departures?

Also I have noticed though not sure its the norm that the a/c on 27R waits to takeoff until the a/c landing on 27L is ready to cross the threshhold. Is this in case the a/c landing doesn't interfere with the a/c on 27R taking off in the event of a go-around?

Correct, Travelpro. They don't want two airborne airplanes that close together if the one on approach goes around. It's normal at any airport that has closely spaced parallel runways with one for arrivals and the other for departures. Other examples are EWR with 4/22 L/R and MCO with 18/36 L/R.

Jim