NMB Speaks: We Have an Election! ALPA/USAPA Topic for 2/19-26

[dariencc]

The NMB has ruled that a representational dispute exists at LCC. Election to follow.


http://1.usairlinepilots.org/default2.htm



Looks like AWA320, Junebug, 767Jetz, and Prechilill were off by a few thousand in their card counts.

 

[ALPO NO MO]

The NMB has ruled that a representational dispute exists at LCC. Election to follow.


http://1.usairlinepilots.org/default2.htm



Looks like AWA320, Junebug, 767Jetz, and Prechilill were off by a few thousand in their card counts.

UtOh, watch for the "Concerned Pilots" to get more concerned-d-der

 

[Richard]

This will be the new ALPA/USAPA thread for the week, however I remind you that ONLY Moderators can start labor threads....

 

[AAA73Pilot]

The NMB has ruled that a representational dispute exists at LCC. Election to follow.
http://1.usairlinepilots.org/default2.htm

Looks like AWA320, Junebug, 767Jetz, and Prechilill were off by a few thousand in their card counts.

That's the best news I've heard in a long while.

 

[john john]

The NMB has ruled that a representational dispute exists at LCC. Election to follow.
[

So what is the time line?

 

[autofixer]

LET'S VOTE!!!

 

[BoeingBoy]

From last week's thread:

Maybe we're not the only ones that value seniority:

I think it's safe to say that every airline pilot values seniority - it's just the definition that's being disputed.....

Who is in the "minority" now?

Apparently still most East pilots....

"Delta pilots flying the airline's biggest jets have fewer years on the job, on average, than their counterparts at Northwest. They have feared Northwest pilots with more years in the air could bump them out of these coveted cockpits. But under the agreement reached by union negotiators, a Delta pilot hired in 1988 might have the same seniority as a Northwest pilot hired in 1985, the pilot said."

because:

"Seniority determines which planes pilots qualify to fly and, therefore, their pay rate."

i.e. Seniority is where a pilot is on the list, not when a pilot got on the list.....

Both quotes from article linked here

Jim

 

[AAA73Pilot]

FYI:


Jumpseat War? Wrong!
There is no jumpseat war as long as East pilots continue to transport West Pilots - and they are!

We urge all US Airways pilots, regardless of opinions on the upcoming election, to show their fellow pilots the courtesy and respect we all deserve. All are entitled to an opinion, even if it does not align with your own. Specifically, we are asking East pilots to continue to act professionally and carry all fellow pilots who meet the requirements on the jumpseat; do not retaliate.

Wear your ID holder with pride, with the pins and the USAPA lanyard. Let management deal with no commutes as a result of denied jumpseats. If you are denied the jumpseat, we'd like to know about it, but please disengage gracefully. East or West pilot, please respect the fact that the crew that has offered you a ride may not agree with you politically. If you support USAPA, please do not use the jumpseat to attempt to convince your captive audience of your views. Likewise if you do not support USAPA.

USAPA is committed to fair representation of all pilots, East and West. It starts with respect in the cockpit.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

You are being magnanimous towards us westies again now that you fully expect to run over us. Deja vu all over again. Yes, you are welcome on my jumpseat, just as you always have been.

To be honest, I'd rather have you fellas on my plane than Scooter "Lottery Ticket" or Prater, those two make me want to puke. After all you are only doing what you can get by with, so far anyway. I've got to hand it to you. Of course the jury is still out on whether or not you can waltz in and dictate like you think you will, that is if you even win the vote to begin with.

 

[767jetz]

Looks like AWA320, Junebug, 767Jetz, and Prechilill were off by a few thousand in their card counts.

I think you should get your facts straight. I never said there would not be an election. I said that each one of those cards does not represent a vote for USAPA. So USAPA may not win the said election. It is not a forgone conclusion. And with the current landscape of mergers, many will be reconsidering the wisdom of changing unions at this pivotal time.

Whatever the outcome of a vote, I still predict that Nicolau will remain.

 

[luvthe9]

From last week's thread:



I think it's safe to say that every airline pilot values seniority - it's just the definition that's being disputed.....




Apparently still most East pilots....

"Delta pilots flying the airline's biggest jets have fewer years on the job, on average, than their counterparts at Northwest. They have feared Northwest pilots with more years in the air could bump them out of these coveted cockpits. But under the agreement reached by union negotiators, a Delta pilot hired in 1988 might have the same seniority as a Northwest pilot hired in 1985, the pilot said."




"Seniority determines which planes pilots qualify to fly and, therefore, their pay rate."

i.e. Seniority is where a pilot is on the list, not when a pilot got on the list.....

Both quotes from article linked here

Jim

SENIORITY MATTERS
The second in a series that takes an honest look at seniority.



Seniority Matters - Even on the West property

Recently USAPA published Part 1 of a series called "Seniority Matters;" this article detailed the different aspects of where seniority comes from.

As an overview, the article referenced Section 22 of the AAA pilot contract which determines seniority for the East pilots. We showed, through what is contained in Section 22, that seniority is defined through the collective bargaining agreement. In other words, each pilot here gets their seniority from the contract.


In Part 2 of this series, we explore the questions, "What about a West pilot? Where does he/she get their seniority?"

Turns out a West pilot also gets their seniority from Section 22 of their contract. Let's take a look at Section 22.A.1 of the AWA contract...

_______________________________________

SECTION 22

SENIORITY

A. GENERAL

1. SENOIRITY OF A PILOT SHALL BEGIN ON THE PILOT'S DATE OF HIRE.

____________________________________________


Well, there it is again. The basic tenant of unionism; Date of Hire really does mean something. In fact, it appears that Date of Hire at the former America West operation means a lot in many ways. Date of Hire means that pilots use this to bid for equipment, base, and position on their system bids. Also the former America West pilots use Date of Hire to bid for monthly schedules, reserve lines and vacation. Yes, Date of Hire as a determinate of seniority is alive and well at the former America West operation.

As USAPA has proposed a Constitution and Bylaws which has the basic fundamental of Date of Hire, we trust that since this basic union tenant is already in place in the West contract, they will understand and embrace this concept. If it's good enough for the former America West pilots now, why wouldn't it be good enough later? Especially in consideration of possible industry consolidation through mergers.

USAPA and its supporters are very concerned about industry consolidation; as our Senior mgt. are quick to say on every news and business show they can land an appearance, they look forward to industry consolidation and the quick stock option payouts a new deal can bring. Looking forward, the concept of Date of Hire seniority is something everyone can understand. It is a time-tested, and court-tested methodology that is fair today, and is fair tomorrow. Your Date of Hire is something that no one can alter, and it is embodied within the pilot's working agreements, just like it is today in Section 22 of the East contract and Section 22 of the West contract. A pilot's Date of Hire, rather than being completely arbitrary, is something quantifiable that he or she will bring with them to the next merger.

Unions that embrace the basic fundamentals (such as seniority based on Date of Hire) within their Constitution and By-Laws fare much better during mergers and acquisitions. One only needs to look at the Association of Flight Attendants (AFA) to see how easily they are able to combine workforces when they use the understandable premise of Date of Hire in mergers, unlike what is happening at ALPA, with an arbitrary policy that is tearing the union apart from within.

Seniority is a right of all pilots flying for American carriers, that prevents mischief from Management. This protects pilots and promotes unity and safety in our industry today. A concrete policy is not only desirable, but necessary for union pilots today.

USAPA applauds the West pilots and acknowledges their foresight in placing "Date of Hire" in Section 22 of their contract.

 

[Piedmont1984]

From last week's thread:



I think it's safe to say that every airline pilot values seniority - it's just the definition that's being disputed.....




Apparently still most East pilots....

"Delta pilots flying the airline's biggest jets have fewer years on the job, on average, than their counterparts at Northwest. They have feared Northwest pilots with more years in the air could bump them out of these coveted cockpits. But under the agreement reached by union negotiators, a Delta pilot hired in 1988 might have the same seniority as a Northwest pilot hired in 1985, the pilot said."

because:

"Seniority determines which planes pilots qualify to fly and, therefore, their pay rate."

i.e. Seniority is where a pilot is on the list, not when a pilot got on the list.....

Both quotes from article linked here

Jim

The example above takes 3 years of longevity from the NWA pilot - not 20 years like the NIC. One falls within the bounds of what is reasonable in order to achieve a single senioriity list. The other is a miscarriage. Too much, too unfair and so now we vote.

 

[end_of_alpa]

From last week's thread:



I think it's safe to say that every airline pilot values seniority - it's just the definition that's being disputed.....




Apparently still most East pilots....

"Delta pilots flying the airline's biggest jets have fewer years on the job, on average, than their counterparts at Northwest. They have feared Northwest pilots with more years in the air could bump them out of these coveted cockpits. But under the agreement reached by union negotiators, a Delta pilot hired in 1988 might have the same seniority as a Northwest pilot hired in 1985, the pilot said."

because:

"Seniority determines which planes pilots qualify to fly and, therefore, their pay rate."

i.e. Seniority is where a pilot is on the list, not when a pilot got on the list.....

Both quotes from article linked here

Jim

That is what "one" mans definition is, but the CONTRACT definition says differently:

East: Seniority of a pilot shall be based upon the length of service as an airline pilot in the employ of the Company or its predecessor airline companies whose operations have been taken over by the Company.

West: Seniority of a Pilot shall begin on the Pilot’s Date of Hire.

Either definition is REASONABLE and works for me.

 

[767jetz]

The example above takes 3 years of longevity from the NWA pilot - not 20 years like the NIC. One falls within the bounds of what is reasonable in order to achieve a single senioriity list. The other is a miscarriage. Too much, too unfair and so now we vote.

The example only takes 3 years because the hiring trends and career movement of both groups in question are not as disparate as they are in the case of East vs West. But the principle is still the same... with the same outcome. Seniority is relative to where a pilot falls on the list, not when he got on that list.

 

[legacy-to-LCC]

i am perhaps the most "life is grey" person you will ever meet...
but, no formula will ever calculate a "relative seniority". such hogwash!!
you fly what your DOH can support. end of discussion!!
this is one of the few "black & white" situations in life.
that america west pilots want to claim otherwise (despite the carrier they worked for is an anti-customer, regional airline) is more hogwash.
at least the nwa and delta pilots have something to talk about...