No Joint Contract, No integration "AWARD"
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ab320driver
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Not exactly. That's not the JOINT contract. We need SEVERAL things fixed before that even gets voted on....
You really should do some reading about that which you aim to post as I believe, unless a typo, what you said about enumerated power has nothing to do with what you meant.
The enumerated power is that Congress has power over some various aspects of Commerce. It stops there. From the US govt. website:
Maintaining the NMB is an enumerated power is a pure stretch and would likely be stronger had you said to take it on faith.
1. The Feds could care less about whether the arbitration is implemented or not. In fact, your dougie has already publicly stated that management could care less whether the list is operated together or separately. Apparently he and his staff see no problem with operating separate lists, but you do? Perhaps your threats would be more appropriate were they directed at dougie.
2. If there is no combining of lists, then there is no dispute to be resolved and the "award" hangs, awaiting a purpose. Again, the Feds could care less. Who're you gonna call, Ghostbusters? At least they have "experience" dealing with spirits and wraiths, not to discount your experiences with spirits.
3. Well, dougie and his staff delayed the JNC and subsequent vote, now they are ass-backwards and into a corner. I think they really thought the arbitration would take much longer. The act of turning down a joint contract would give the Easties tremendous leverage, should they choose to do so, eschewing millions of dollars in savings from combining operations, and, truly tossing the proverbial monkey wrench into further merger talks.
The next couple of years could be very interesting, if the Easties play their cards right.
ab320driver
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AGAIN, that's not the JOINT CONTRACT. That's just AWA working under our current contract. To integrate the pilots, we need to VOTE in a JOINT contract. THAT'S not happening anytime soon....
Elevation
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They can use that and reopen the usair east contract. Merged. Read the letter and learn. It's over.
Jerry Glass and gang created this mess and he has a good grasp as to what the long and drawn out process is. He/gang is very good at this process. He/gang is making a name for himself at USAirways employee’s expense.
aquagreen73s
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I wasn't even going to bother responding but you're lack of knowledge about your own government is horrifying. As a public service, I have to say something. In a nutshell, our Federal government is one of enumerate powers. It cannot act unless the Constitution gives it the power to act. The most widely used power without question is the commerce power. Congress can touch any sort of activity, public and private, so long as their law is rationally related to interstate commerce. Look up Wicker v. Filburn. There a wheat farmer was growing wheat for his own use yet the Supreme Court said a federal law still regulated the wheat even though it wasn't going to be introduced into the stream of commerce. The reasoning was that the activity of the farmer, taken in aggregate across the nation, could have a substantial effect on interstate commerce. Think about it, that was a totally private activity, yet Congress could regulate when and how much wheat a guy wants to grow for his own family. So you're trivilization of the commerce clause is so wrong that I cannot even think of a powerful enough description of how wrong you are.
Note that the only other way Congress can reach private behavior is through the 13th Amendment - that's the one that gives Congress the power to eliminate any incident or badge of slavery. It's never used, however, because the commerce clause gives Congress all the power they need to regulate private activity. The point about private activity is that most Americans think that the Constitution reaches private activity (discrimination, etc.). It doesn't. The Bill of Rights only applies to the Federal Government. The 14th Amendment made the Bill of Rights applicable to the states. But those are government actors - if the government doesn't act, then the Bill of Rights don't apply. The Commerce Clause, however, is so pervasive and so powerful, that unlike our precious Bill of Rights, Congress can reach private activity throught the Commerce Claue. IT'S THAT POWERFUL.
Finally, there has been only one case where the Supreme Court has limited the power of Congress under the Commerce Clause: U.S. v. Lopez. That's the guns near schools case. Carrying a gun near a school is not rationally related to interstate commerce. But again...that's the only time the Supreme Court has found that Congress has exceeded its Constitutional powers under the Commerce Clause. Ever.
ab320driver
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Good. Re-open, VOTE ON IT, VOTED DOWN, re-negotiate. It's FAR from over....
RowUnderDCA
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That's my question. Could West vote to adopt East contract without consultation with East pilot group?
USA320Pilot
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The US Airways East ALPA JNC has cancelled follow on meetings with its West ALPA JNC counterparts. One option being discussed by the MEC is to pull out of JNC talks, then have the US Airways East pilots to live under LOA 93, and then force the West pilots to enter into Section VI negotiations per the RLA because their contract is already amendable.
This action could delay implementation of the Nicolau Award for 10 years because of the RLA’s provisions. The US Airways contract does not expire for 3 more years and then the parties would negotiate new terms. Following a period of a couple years of negotiations the NMB could order mediation, which in recent airline cases has lasted over 4 years, thus we are now up to 11 years from now for a new East pilot contract.
If this occurs then the US Airways East pilots would have all East Coast flying to them self, all widebody flying, all EMB-190 flying, and maintain all attrition based career expectation. Here is why? In the next ten years the East pilots have 2,497 and the West pilots have 562 retirements per year. Thus, the West pilots have about 56 retirements per year and no growth flying according to the company, thus, if this option is exercised by the East the West pilots will have virtual stagnation.
Therefore, at this point the majority of the East pilots can get promotions and pay raises by doing nothing; however, in the case of the West pilots, they cannot get promotions and must enter into Section 6 negotiations to get a pay raise.
How long did it take for the East pilots to get a pay raise after their last contract was amendable? Four years.
Moreover, the two companies could not merge operations and there would be less motivation for the company to reach new labor accords with the AFA, IAM-M, and IAM-FSA because that would drive up CASM, without the benefit of the cost and revenue synergies of combining the operation.
In my opinion, the best option is place a permanent fence between West and East Coast bases, which would preserve pre-merger career expectations for both pilot groups. There would need to be a number of restrictions such as how to share new widebody flying. EMB-190 flying, shared sacrifice in any future furlough, scope restrictions, minimum block hours, minimum aircraft, etc. but this is normal contract language. It will take strong leadership by Doug Parker, Scott Kirby, John McIlvenna, and Jack Stephan to work this out, but it is attainable. If something like this is not worked out then if nothing else, the majority of the East pilot group is willing to pull out of JNC talks and live under LOA 93 for the next decade.
Regards,
USA320Pilot
This action could delay implementation of the Nicolau Award for 10 years because of the RLA’s provisions. The US Airways contract does not expire for 3 more years and then the parties would negotiate new terms. Following a period of a couple years of negotiations the NMB could order mediation, which in recent airline cases has lasted over 4 years, thus we are now up to 11 years from now for a new East pilot contract.
If this occurs then the US Airways East pilots would have all East Coast flying to them self, all widebody flying, all EMB-190 flying, and maintain all attrition based career expectation. Here is why? In the next ten years the East pilots have 2,497 and the West pilots have 562 retirements per year. Thus, the West pilots have about 56 retirements per year and no growth flying according to the company, thus, if this option is exercised by the East the West pilots will have virtual stagnation.
Therefore, at this point the majority of the East pilots can get promotions and pay raises by doing nothing; however, in the case of the West pilots, they cannot get promotions and must enter into Section 6 negotiations to get a pay raise.
How long did it take for the East pilots to get a pay raise after their last contract was amendable? Four years.
Moreover, the two companies could not merge operations and there would be less motivation for the company to reach new labor accords with the AFA, IAM-M, and IAM-FSA because that would drive up CASM, without the benefit of the cost and revenue synergies of combining the operation.
In my opinion, the best option is place a permanent fence between West and East Coast bases, which would preserve pre-merger career expectations for both pilot groups. There would need to be a number of restrictions such as how to share new widebody flying. EMB-190 flying, shared sacrifice in any future furlough, scope restrictions, minimum block hours, minimum aircraft, etc. but this is normal contract language. It will take strong leadership by Doug Parker, Scott Kirby, John McIlvenna, and Jack Stephan to work this out, but it is attainable. If something like this is not worked out then if nothing else, the majority of the East pilot group is willing to pull out of JNC talks and live under LOA 93 for the next decade.
Regards,
USA320Pilot
Junebug172
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So flying FAR schedules and less pay than the west for the next, what, 3-4 years appeals to you?
I think you also misinterpreted US vs Lopez, because the statute that was voided by Rhenquist, the Gun Free School Zone Act. was subsequently changed to "fix" the technicalities that caused it to be voided and remains, not that you would understand the weakness of your argument.
So, what part of your information applies to our situation at hand? Of what use is an arbitration result that applies to no list.
You presume the westies will secure something better than what they have?
Good luck. With, say, half of the 4500 willing to take your job, I'd say you have a teeny problem assuming professional pilots will allow rooties to take their jobs and that those same professionals would not take yours.
You presume the rooties will secure something that will make up for the permanent F/Os the "merged" list has created? I'm picking up that a lot of east F/Os would take their chances that something different will happen.
If you think that, I'd get real used to seeing your executives hairy tutus. Jest sayin'
