Northwest to share profits with employees

[Don Smith]

The girl said she sat down with her pay stubs as a comparison...Whatever your "analysis" showed, it obviously doesn't reflect the real end results that the F/A group is seeing in their paychecks. Just because you "don't believe it" doesn't mean it isn't happening. I think we all have read your other posts trying to justify all of the new nwa statistics but the real people in the field are feeling a real difference in their paychecks. They are also working longer hours and spending more time away from home for the "wash" as you call it. That seems to be the nwa solution to everyones pain...work longer hours, work more days, get in line, shut up and sit down!

It was analysis done as part of my job....They both gained some of that back in the ability to work more hours....).

 

[big jimmy]

It was analysis done as part of my job. Pilots got a 40% wage rate cut, and flight attendants got a 20% wage rate cut. Pilots got hit harder both on the rate (40% vs 20%) and on the step, since a lot of guys also got moved into lower paying aircraft as part of the resizing and work rule changes. They both gained some of that back in the ability to work more hours. Each pilot also just got a $20-$30K check as part of the sale of a portion of their claim, which the Flight attendants missed out on my not voting for their TA.

In order to back up your claim of my lying and ignorance, please explain in detail where my information is flawed. I'm waiting for Jenny to do the same. If you can't, then you might want to retract your statement. Of course, you likely won't, because you don't have any information to the contrary and have no interest in sorting out fact from fiction.

The last two-thirds of your post is meaningless junk, so I won't bother responding to it. Although; your judge story was very riveting (he smiled, eh, very interesting).

"They both gained some of that back in the ability to work more hours." Don't you mean forced to work more hours?

 

[jenny@nw]

It was analysis done as part of my job. Pilots got a 40% wage rate cut, and flight attendants got a 20% wage rate cut. Pilots got hit harder both on the rate (40% vs 20%) and on the step, since a lot of guys also got moved into lower paying aircraft as part of the resizing and work rule changes. They both gained some of that back in the ability to work more hours. Each pilot also just got a $20-$30K check as part of the sale of a portion of their claim, which the Flight attendants missed out on my not voting for their TA.

In order to back up your claim of my lying and ignorance, please explain in detail where my information is flawed. I'm waiting for Jenny to do the same. If you can't, then you might want to retract your statement. Of course, you likely won't, because you don't have any information to the contrary and have no interest in sorting out fact from fiction.

The last two-thirds of your post is meaningless junk, so I won't bother responding to it. Although; your judge story was very riveting (he smiled, eh, very interesting).

Sure it was. I don't believe you at all, because what you are saying is completely false and I don't think you are credible at all. Seems like you are writing this without any comprehension of how we were being paid before and what the differnce is now. I had to explain THAT to you.

Lie like a lazy dawg on a hot summer day....

 

[finman]

Sure it was. I don't believe you at all, because what you are saying is completely false and I don't think you are credible at all. Seems like you are writing this without any comprehension of how we were being paid before and what the differnce is now. I had to explain THAT to you.

Lie like a lazy dawg on a hot summer day....

Where am I incorrect? Would you like me to pull up a sampling of FLAPPS info from before and after the TA and post it here for you? Would that be believable enough for you, since it is actual payroll data? And what exactly have you explained to me? You've done you're best to not answer any direct questions or respond to any direct points of mine. What specific items do you disagree with? I'm not trying to diminish the fact the FA's took a really big hit here, but I'm not going to just sit quiet when poeple claim to have taken a 50% cut when I know it to be less than half of that. It cheapens the significant cuts that everyone else took when some people greatly exaggerate their own.

Give me you employee number and I'll send you a comprehensive assessment of your FLAPPS payroll information for the last 24 months showing the net reduction in monthly pay since Feb-06; would that be enough evidence for you? If that shows a reduction of 25% rather than 50%, would that be enough evidence for you? Or do you just "feel" that 50% is the right number, so you're gong to stick with that?

 

[jenny@nw]

Where am I incorrect? Would you like me to pull up a sampling of FLAPPS info from before and after the TA and post it here for you? Would that be believable enough for you, since it is actual payroll data? And what exactly have you explained to me? You've done you're best to not answer any direct questions or respond to any direct points of mine. What specific items do you disagree with? I'm not trying to diminish the fact the FA's took a really big hit here, but I'm not going to just sit quiet when poeple claim to have taken a 50% cut when I know it to be less than half of that. It cheapens the significant cuts that everyone else took when some people greatly exaggerate their own.

Give me you employee number and I'll send you a comprehensive assessment of your FLAPPS payroll information for the last 24 months showing the net reduction in monthly pay since Feb-06; would that be enough evidence for you? If that shows a reduction of 25% rather than 50%, would that be enough evidence for you? Or do you just "feel" that 50% is the right number, so you're gong to stick with that?

You must be seriously joking about me giving you my employee number.
Why am I going to ask for evidence when I am the one working the job. You think I don't know how much of a paycut I got? How silly. Don't get your undies in a bunch.


I'm seriously starting to doubt your credibility even more.
You also avoided the fact that I stated that the paycuts are "staggered" rather than your redundant repetition of averages you are spewing out.

Flat out fact is we are the ones who can actually compare last year's pay stub with this year. Even the pilot I was jumpseating with was telling me he took a 40+ percent paycut.
I am seriously doubting your creditbility and it seems like you are just borrowng these facts from somewhere.

It was a nice union meeting. Should of been there. The theme was called "reality check"

I'd like to see you tell the 50 people who were there that what we are seeing in our paychecks are wrong. Maybe all 9,000 flight attendants should call payroll tomorrow saying that finman from usaviation website said we are suppose to be getting 30% more that all our paychecks are actually wrong for the past months.

thanks alot.

 

[RGM7]

You must be seriously joking about me giving you my employee number.
Why am I going to ask for evidence when I am the one working the job. You think I don't know how much of a paycut I got? How silly. Don't get your undies in a bunch.
I'm seriously starting to doubt your credibility even more.
You also avoided the fact that I stated that the paycuts are "staggered" rather than your redundant repetition of averages you are spewing out.

Flat out fact is we are the ones who can actually compare last year's pay stub with this year. Even the pilot I was jumpseating with was telling me he took a 40+ percent paycut.
I am seriously doubting your creditbility and it seems like you are just borrowng these facts from somewhere.

It was a nice union meeting. Should of been there. The theme was called "reality check"

I'd like to see you tell the 50 people who were there that what we are seeing in our paychecks are wrong. Maybe all 9,000 flight attendants should call payroll tomorrow saying that finman from usaviation website said we are suppose to be getting 30% more that all our paychecks are actually wrong for the past months.

thanks alot.

i have 1 question

why are you still working for NWA??

 

[Hackman]

i have 1 question

why are you still working for NWA??

I think it might be so she can witness the right cross to the jaw scabs like you will recieve from Dougie in the very near future.

I'd buy a ticket for that one.... :huh:

 

[RGM7]

I think it might be so she can witness the right cross to the jaw scabs like you will recieve from Dougie in the very near future.

I'd buy a ticket for that one.... :huh:

too funny now i am a scab...lol i don't work for the airlines but ya that would be a good ticket to buy let me know when they go on sale...

you win some and lose some this time you guys lost quit crying about and move on...you people voted on a strike and it didn't work out...it is what it is

 

[tech2101]

Where am I incorrect? Would you like me to pull up a sampling of FLAPPS info from before and after the TA and post it here for you? Would that be believable enough for you, since it is actual payroll data? And what exactly have you explained to me? You've done you're best to not answer any direct questions or respond to any direct points of mine. What specific items do you disagree with? I'm not trying to diminish the fact the FA's took a really big hit here, but I'm not going to just sit quiet when poeple claim to have taken a 50% cut when I know it to be less than half of that. It cheapens the significant cuts that everyone else took when some people greatly exaggerate their own.

Give me you employee number and I'll send you a comprehensive assessment of your FLAPPS payroll information for the last 24 months showing the net reduction in monthly pay since Feb-06; would that be enough evidence for you? If that shows a reduction of 25% rather than 50%, would that be enough evidence for you? Or do you just "feel" that 50% is the right number, so you're gong to stick with that?

Mr. finman. Why don't you take a random sample of F/A employee numbers and show gross pay vs hours worked year over year (before t/a and after). Make sure you display the employee numbers. Jen can then go contact these employees and see if the info is correct. We will then forward all of that to the media you can be a star. You will be Steenland's hero.

It may backfire. He may also make you "abandon" your job.

 

[CSAR GYRENE]

i have 1 question

why are you still working for NWA??

Not to sound harsh, but this is a pretty good question. It is no secret how you feel about NWA, so why DO you stay?
Your bright, articulate, got a good sense of hummor, know your S**T, There must be a hundred oppertunities out there for you.
Dont get me wrong...this aint a "theres the door, dont let the knob hit yer derrier on the way out" post. By all accounts, you would seem to be an asset, and I've no wish to lose good people. I am somewhat befuddled, however over your insistance on working for a company you feel is as evil and corrupt as NWA. Now, my gut tells me you are more than just another F/A posting her thoughts on this forum. I am quite sure there is much more to you than meets the eye, so perhaps you have alterior motives for staying other than "Hell, I been here this long, might as well stick it out for the duration". Out of respect for your privacy, however, I shall pursue this no further.
As an aside, while I was on a flight to MSP on 27 NOV, A man went into GRAND MAL siesures. The crew did an OUTSTANDING job in taking care of this gentleman. Please pass on to all your fellow F/A's a VERY well earned salute from a grumpy ol' jarhead.
respectfully,
Al Clark

 

[finman]

You must be seriously joking about me giving you my employee number.
Why am I going to ask for evidence when I am the one working the job. You think I don't know how much of a paycut I got? How silly. Don't get your undies in a bunch.
I'm seriously starting to doubt your credibility even more.
You also avoided the fact that I stated that the paycuts are "staggered" rather than your redundant repetition of averages you are spewing out.

Flat out fact is we are the ones who can actually compare last year's pay stub with this year. Even the pilot I was jumpseating with was telling me he took a 40+ percent paycut.
I am seriously doubting your creditbility and it seems like you are just borrowng these facts from somewhere.

It was a nice union meeting. Should of been there. The theme was called "reality check"

I'd like to see you tell the 50 people who were there that what we are seeing in our paychecks are wrong. Maybe all 9,000 flight attendants should call payroll tomorrow saying that finman from usaviation website said we are suppose to be getting 30% more that all our paychecks are actually wrong for the past months.

thanks alot.

So a pilot telling you he got a 40% paycut proves that you also got a 40% pay cut? The pilots got a total of a 39% paycut with the 15% bridge cut and 24% TA cut. The FA's got a 20% TA cut. Those are the facts as they pertain to the base wage scale.

The fact that you gauge your cut from a pilots, when their scale was cut twice as much as yours leads me to believe that you don't have a very solid understanding of the varying magnitudes given up be each workgroup. (who's borrowing facts now?)

The information I look at is total pay by month, irregardless of the timing of the paycheck. It is directly fed into the payroll system (so no need for Tech2101's suggestion, as there would be no surprises). That is the best source of actual information, since it is the full pay for activity during a particular bid month.

All I've asked is, with the base wage scale cut at 20%, (or whatever the cut was for your particular step, which you've yet to specify), what are the reconciling items that get you up to the 50% total paycut you claimed? You've just named some types of pay that I am obviously familiar with, and some general statmements of items that were reduced. Why cant you lay out the detail that adds up to the 50%. If you're so in touch with your paycheck and knowledgeable of your own contract, it would be something that you've already done.

This is getting tiresome, as all I can do is ask for you to prove your assertion with actual or tracable data. Since you can't do that (because you know that it won't add up to a 50% cut and you'd have to retract) I think we can let this rest. I just wanted to make sure it was known the "true" sacrifice that FA's gave up, which was very substantial, but nowhere near 50%.

 

[jenny@nw]

WE? You should give it a rest. Who are you Phil Hahn? He told us the same thing.

I'm over it already and I know the truth (since I get those 'paychecks') Why did I have to tell you about short crew pay, ground time, ect.? Were you just ignoring the facts to prove your silly point with averages?

Thanks for the laugh. I told some of my friends what you said so I'm sure they are lurking here now.

 

[finman]

WE? You should give it a rest. Who are you Phil Hahn? He told us the same thing.

I'm over it already and I know the truth (since I get those 'paychecks') Why did I have to tell you about short crew pay, ground time, ect.? Were you just ignoring the facts to prove your silly point with averages?

Thanks for the laugh. I told some of my friends what you said so I'm sure they are lurking here now.

Here you go. I've included the line items you discussed, and you can fill in the blanks. Use yourself or another particular FA as an example, since averages seem to so offend you. Feel free to change the before and after wage rates or any other input; this is just a template for you. If it’s easier, just pick a typical month in 2005 and extrapolate to the full year, and do the same for a typical month since the TA was implemented.


Baseline (2005) Total Pay:

Pay Hours: 900 (75 hours per month)
Wage Rate: $45/hr (Avg. for 2005)
Base Wages: $40,500
Short Crew Comp: $$$
Ground Time: $$$
Other (purser, lead, quarterly OT, etc): $$$
Total Wages: $$


Wages Under Imposed TA:

Pay Hours: 1,020 (85 hours per month)
Wage Rate: $36/hr (20% reduction)
Base Wages: $36,720
Short Crew Comp: $$$
Ground Time: $$$
Other (purser, lead, quarterly OT, etc): $$$
Total Wages: $$



Net Reduction in Wages = XX% ((TA Total – 2005 total) / 2005 total)

 

[jenny@nw]

PHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHT!

Now you owe me a coffee, I just spat it out onto the computer!

 

[finman]

PHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHT!

Now you owe me a coffee, I just spat it out onto the computer!

I think your Jack Tripper response is a perfect conclusion to this silly little excercise. The "outing" is officially complete.