jenny@nw
Veteran
omit the drama and you got it.
NW Flight Cancellations
- Thread starter upsilon
- Start date
- Status
Simmer down. I said, IF working hard makes you sick, then you're a pussy. I don't diminish the fact that it's not easy work. A lot of poeple have difficult stressful jobs, but they don't use that as a copout to call in sick. Obviously, it doesn't take much of the pilot population (10% maybe) to be pussies to throw the whole system out of whack as it has done this month.
You can't be with your family as much as you'd like. Boo F*ing Hoo. You chose to be an airline pilot; that comes with the territory. I'm sorry you have to now work a few more days a month to earn your $120K per year. It's called productivity, which apparently is OK for SWA pilots, but not OK for the historically pampered NWA pilots.
I'm the one that's self absorbed? I just call it as I see it, based on testimonials from NWA management pilots and a significant amount of statistical analysis. You tell me, is it reasonable that 15% of the total pay and 22% of hard pay to pilots is sick pay? How do you justify that such a ridiculously high amount of sick usage?
robbedagain
Veteran
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2003
- Messages
- 11,125
- Reaction score
- 2,676
according to yesterday's usatoday it was 4th day in a row that nwa cancelled 10% of flights due to pilot shortage not pilot sickouts. of course had nwa actually prepared for the busy summer season may be they wouldnt be in the sinking titanic that they're in now
100% on second call with doctors note (those are real tough to get), and 75% thereafter. Still way too sweet of deal.
As you know, NWA uses a trip building optimizer that builds the least costly global solution based on the marketing schedule that is constructed. This may produce outlier trips that seem unproductive, but when you're working a global solution, that can happen. The goal of NWA-ALPA is to make more pilot-friendly trips, at the expense of reducing the efficiencies gained applying the results of the global solution. I.E., if you apply numerous restrictions on the patterns that can be built, you reduce the number of iterations that can be constructed, and thus end up with a sum total of trips that has more expense and headcount needed to cover the schedule.
As I said, I've worked both physically intensive and mentally intensive jobs, so not just cubicle jobs. I'm not a big old stud, just a normal person that goes to work and doesn't call in sick unless I'm actually sick.
Sure, there is a higher probability, but that would be a marginal effect, and most of that would be captured by the increase in the denominator. I.E., 10% sick rate when working 80 hours is 8 hours of sick, where 10% sick rate when working 90 hours is 9 hours of sick. In terms of sick rate, which is all that I am concerned with, an increase of 8 to 9 hours in this scenerio is not an increase in sick usage.
Not sure I buy the whole December disaster scenerio. Let's look at the numbers, using the example of a pilot working 90 hours per month for the year, which is probably the most anybody could work under current contract.
FAA minumum Hard (flying) hours - 1,000
Total Credit Hours - 1,080
(includes vacation, sick, penalty and hard hours)
Vacation backout - (80)
Sick backout - (40)
Penalty backout - (40)
Hard Hours Flown - 920 hours
So, even a guy that has 90 credit hours every month is not going to reach the 1000 hours of block flying limitation in December. Am I wrong here?
No, you're just an arse without much sense.
Pilots at SWA fly trips that are 1, 2, 3, or 4 days long. Each day averages about 6 hours of flying. Better lines average up to 7. Hence, in 14-15 days, a SWA pilot can fly 90-100 hours.
From recent conversations on the jumpseat, it seems that NWA pilots start trips that are 3 days long that pay 15 and are forced to extend to five day trips that pay 25. NWA pilots have to work 19-20 days to do what SWA pilots do in 14-15.
As for signing up to be a pilot--you bet we did--to work 10-12 days a month for 200-300K per year. Now NWA management wants pilots to work 20 days a month for 120K-200K per year and wonders why the pilots don't just do it. The pilot's grass seems greener to you--but brown and sparse to the pilots themselves. It'll take a lot longer and more than a chump like you to change their/our expectations.
Oh, by the way, after flying about 90 hours in a month, it's time to call it quits and head home to relax. If you have 15 days off--no problem. I don't see how a pilot with only 10 days off could do it though. I'd burn out in a hurry. I totally understand the NWA pilots using the "F" (Fatigue) word and increase in sick calls.
jenny@nw
Veteran
NO, that's Master-baiter.
Tisk,tisk,tisk. Why even bother to reply, Finman?
This is by no means a work action. You just spread people a bit too thin... Total management error.
So, Finman how many pilots have quit? I know some who did some "dramatic" way of exiting the company since they were burnt out being reschedueled for 13 days straight.
Why were we so slow calling back pilots? Because you guys wanted to see how much productivity you can squeeze out of person... are you guys replacing those who quit? I don't think so....
I heard recall training is a P.O.S. too.
In short...yes you are wrong. You are setting some assumptions that may work for senior captains, but not the lower rung poges. You know what they say about assumptions. Remember it doesn't take an average pilot to fly a pattern, it takes a crew. You need to look at the lowest common denominator. No FO = no flight. I didn't say 90 credit hours. Everyone is flying hard hours (or maybe you hadn't heard that yet). Not everone has vacation to take. Not everyone has used sick leave. Its easy to get 90 hour a month when you are scheduled at 87+ hours and don't get sick. So even at 90 hard hours a month (I average more than that although not by choice), that means it will take 11.1 months to make 1000 hours. I'll enjoy at least the last 26.9 days of the year off. I'm not alone either. Like I said, start planning now or hire more pilots you pussy. And quit saying pilots make over 100K a year. Many don't, me included, even at 90 hours a month. You feel so comfortable using averages and statistics. Like I said before...stick you pencil necked geek head out of the cubicle and smell the bull manure. You haven't a clue about what is really going on in YOUR airline.
jenny@nw
Veteran
BTW, FINMAN- few weeks ago a news article in the Star Tribune stated flight attendands did recieve 40% or MORE paycut. I suggest you hurry up and call them on it to correct the article. (possibly a May article since I only recieve the Pioneer Press at home and a fellow F/A was sharing this)
It wasn't by Liz, but it was quite interesting. Hurry up! The truth is being spread! What will it do to NW's outstanding reputation????
Kev3188
Veteran
Steenland's response to employees today (bold print is my own handiwork):
June 29, 2007
Dear Co-worker:
As everyone knows, we’ve had a painful week as we have had to cancel flights, inconvenience customers, and put an extra burden on all our co-workers. We are working hard to solve this problem and we all need to work as a team to make sure this never happens again. It’s important that we understand the facts and the steps being taken to address the issue.
When we first developed our 2007 business plan, we expected to increase capacity by 3.7 percent year-over-year compared to 2006. We planned this level of growth to secure jobs, take advantage of new opportunities created by our successful restructuring, and increase the profitability of the airline.
In the spring of this year, recognizing that summer weather might be challenging and that this would be the first summer operating in our post restructuring environment, we took steps to ensure that we had adequate pilot staffing. Specifically, we pulled back on some of our planned growth to create additional pilot reserve hours for the summer months. In fact, we entered this summer with the highest level of pilot reserves in Northwest’s recent history.
Since October 2006, we have been retraining our furloughed pilots so that they can resume flying and we can grow our pilot staffing. Our training facilities have been full to capacity and we have offered every furloughed NWA pilot the opportunity to return to Northwest.
In May, Northwest completed 99.1 percent of its scheduled flights which put us near the top of all network carriers in completion factor. This excellent level of operational performance suggested our plan for the summer was a sound one.
Why then has NWA’s completion factor in June been so different from May? Several factors have contributed to the June results. Among the most important are:
Weather: We had two major East Coast storms in early June and one in the Midwest that significantly affected our operations and caused us to use up many pilot hours. This week’s storms on the East Coast and Wednesday’s ground stops in Detroit further impacted our operations and reminded us just how disruptive bad weather can be during peak travel summer months. Our competitors were also affected. For example, yesterday, Delta cancelled 200 flights.
Increasing Congestion: As many of you know, the East Coast is reaching the saturation point for aircraft operations. Even on good weather days, we are incurring delays into the large East Coast cities and this is getting worse by the month. These ATC delays also use up more pilot hours than expected.
Absenteeism: Pilot absenteeism increased by 80 percent in June 2007 versus June 2006 and by 40 percent in June 2007 versus May 2007. These absenteeism increases primarily involved a minority of NWA narrow-body pilots.
The cumulative effect of these factors caused the airline to have a shortage of pilots for the latter part of June. This left us no choice but to pre-cancel flights so that we could get the airline back to normal.
Some have suggested that if NWA had started retraining its furloughed pilots sooner the June problem could have been avoided. Using the perfect vision of 20 – 20 hindsight, that clearly would have helped. If our crystal ball had been perfect, we would have recalled pilots sooner and not expanded the airline as much in 2007. However, we entered the summer with reasonable expectations that the schedule would be operated reliably, for the following reasons:
Pilot reserve hours for the summer months were at an all time high;
The May 2007 operation realized a 99.1 percent completion factor; and
The June 2007 completion factor would have been in line with that of prior months if pilot absenteeism had remained at the same level as June 2006. The June 2007 pilot staffing plan did not anticipate the increase in absenteeism over June 2006.
So what are we doing to address this issue? Here are some of the steps we are taking:
Effective July 18, we will cancel our Detroit – Frankfurt second frequency which is flown with 757 aircraft, thereby creating additional pilot hours.
In August we are further reducing the schedule by 90 flying hours per day (a reduction of about 3 percent of domestic mainline capacity) to create additional reserves and to reduce the monthly maximum hours that our pilots will be asked to fly that month.
We are continuing our efforts to increase the number of NWA pilots. Our training facility will remain full. We will look to get all remaining furloughed pilots back to work and we will initiate new pilot hiring, if necessary.
Recognizing that summer thunderstorms and ATC congestion are inevitable, starting in August, we will also modify the way that some of our pilot trips are scheduled, especially to and from the large East Coast cities, so that when bad weather and ATC delays do occur, the impact on the entire system can be minimized.
We have also instituted some short-term solutions to mitigate cancellations. These include relaxed travel restrictions, efforts to ensure quick re-accommodation of our passengers, and multiple efforts to contact our customers about the cancellations.
The past week has been a very difficult time for NWA, especially for all of you who have been dealing directly with our customers, who are understandably frustrated. I am particularly grateful to our ground personnel, reservations agents, pilots and flight attendants who have been working hard every day during this challenging period. Thank you for your professionalism, hard work and commitment to meeting our customers’ needs.
Please be assured that we are taking every measure to resolve the problem and return Northwest to normal operations. To accomplish this, we all must continue the commitment we have shown during our 20 months of restructuring and remain focused on our shared goal of making Northwest one of the world’s most successful airlines.
Sincerely,
Doug Steenland
June 29, 2007
Dear Co-worker:
As everyone knows, we’ve had a painful week as we have had to cancel flights, inconvenience customers, and put an extra burden on all our co-workers. We are working hard to solve this problem and we all need to work as a team to make sure this never happens again. It’s important that we understand the facts and the steps being taken to address the issue.
When we first developed our 2007 business plan, we expected to increase capacity by 3.7 percent year-over-year compared to 2006. We planned this level of growth to secure jobs, take advantage of new opportunities created by our successful restructuring, and increase the profitability of the airline.
In the spring of this year, recognizing that summer weather might be challenging and that this would be the first summer operating in our post restructuring environment, we took steps to ensure that we had adequate pilot staffing. Specifically, we pulled back on some of our planned growth to create additional pilot reserve hours for the summer months. In fact, we entered this summer with the highest level of pilot reserves in Northwest’s recent history.
Since October 2006, we have been retraining our furloughed pilots so that they can resume flying and we can grow our pilot staffing. Our training facilities have been full to capacity and we have offered every furloughed NWA pilot the opportunity to return to Northwest.
In May, Northwest completed 99.1 percent of its scheduled flights which put us near the top of all network carriers in completion factor. This excellent level of operational performance suggested our plan for the summer was a sound one.
Why then has NWA’s completion factor in June been so different from May? Several factors have contributed to the June results. Among the most important are:
Weather: We had two major East Coast storms in early June and one in the Midwest that significantly affected our operations and caused us to use up many pilot hours. This week’s storms on the East Coast and Wednesday’s ground stops in Detroit further impacted our operations and reminded us just how disruptive bad weather can be during peak travel summer months. Our competitors were also affected. For example, yesterday, Delta cancelled 200 flights.
Increasing Congestion: As many of you know, the East Coast is reaching the saturation point for aircraft operations. Even on good weather days, we are incurring delays into the large East Coast cities and this is getting worse by the month. These ATC delays also use up more pilot hours than expected.
Absenteeism: Pilot absenteeism increased by 80 percent in June 2007 versus June 2006 and by 40 percent in June 2007 versus May 2007. These absenteeism increases primarily involved a minority of NWA narrow-body pilots.
The cumulative effect of these factors caused the airline to have a shortage of pilots for the latter part of June. This left us no choice but to pre-cancel flights so that we could get the airline back to normal.
Some have suggested that if NWA had started retraining its furloughed pilots sooner the June problem could have been avoided. Using the perfect vision of 20 – 20 hindsight, that clearly would have helped. If our crystal ball had been perfect, we would have recalled pilots sooner and not expanded the airline as much in 2007. However, we entered the summer with reasonable expectations that the schedule would be operated reliably, for the following reasons:
Pilot reserve hours for the summer months were at an all time high;
The May 2007 operation realized a 99.1 percent completion factor; and
The June 2007 completion factor would have been in line with that of prior months if pilot absenteeism had remained at the same level as June 2006. The June 2007 pilot staffing plan did not anticipate the increase in absenteeism over June 2006.
So what are we doing to address this issue? Here are some of the steps we are taking:
Effective July 18, we will cancel our Detroit – Frankfurt second frequency which is flown with 757 aircraft, thereby creating additional pilot hours.
In August we are further reducing the schedule by 90 flying hours per day (a reduction of about 3 percent of domestic mainline capacity) to create additional reserves and to reduce the monthly maximum hours that our pilots will be asked to fly that month.
We are continuing our efforts to increase the number of NWA pilots. Our training facility will remain full. We will look to get all remaining furloughed pilots back to work and we will initiate new pilot hiring, if necessary.
Recognizing that summer thunderstorms and ATC congestion are inevitable, starting in August, we will also modify the way that some of our pilot trips are scheduled, especially to and from the large East Coast cities, so that when bad weather and ATC delays do occur, the impact on the entire system can be minimized.
We have also instituted some short-term solutions to mitigate cancellations. These include relaxed travel restrictions, efforts to ensure quick re-accommodation of our passengers, and multiple efforts to contact our customers about the cancellations.
The past week has been a very difficult time for NWA, especially for all of you who have been dealing directly with our customers, who are understandably frustrated. I am particularly grateful to our ground personnel, reservations agents, pilots and flight attendants who have been working hard every day during this challenging period. Thank you for your professionalism, hard work and commitment to meeting our customers’ needs.
Please be assured that we are taking every measure to resolve the problem and return Northwest to normal operations. To accomplish this, we all must continue the commitment we have shown during our 20 months of restructuring and remain focused on our shared goal of making Northwest one of the world’s most successful airlines.
Sincerely,
Doug Steenland
jenny@nw
Veteran
PurduePete
Senior
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2006
- Messages
- 320
- Reaction score
- 0
Kev, thanks for providing Dougie's spin on the fiasco via RADAR. Since I resigned from the company, I no longer have access to it (thank goodness).
Sorry to say it, but just based on the events of the past week, I'd be shocked if you guys will be getting any type of profit sharing check this quarter. As you well know, NW will use any event or excuse to their benefit.
(BTW - have they been reporting any of the myriad cancellations as maintenance related? It would seem like a convenient way for NW to pawn off those types of cancellations on the "weather" instead in order to make their A/C reliability numbers seem better than they normally would.)
Sorry to say it, but just based on the events of the past week, I'd be shocked if you guys will be getting any type of profit sharing check this quarter. As you well know, NW will use any event or excuse to their benefit.
(BTW - have they been reporting any of the myriad cancellations as maintenance related? It would seem like a convenient way for NW to pawn off those types of cancellations on the "weather" instead in order to make their A/C reliability numbers seem better than they normally would.)
Kev3188
Veteran
No problem! You're not really missing much, unless you enjoyed looking at all of Crystal Knotek's roadtrip pictures.... 🙄
I'm certainly not planning on one...Luckily, as mentioned previously, I've got my $62.07 Performance Incentive Plan check and my trusty dusty coffee mug to keep me warm.
Curiously, no. Most all of the cancellations are actually coded as "no crew" (as least as far as WorldFlight & Pars are concerned). There are also losts of "Pilot Turn" delays as as well.
Make no mistake though; the fantastic MX team at NWA are still doing their part to make sure we have plenty of MX delays and cancellations, as well as MEL stickers and "unservicable tape" throughout all the cabins. For what it's worth, the MEL count was at 240ish yesterday AM, IIRC.
- Status
