Nw Meger With Job Security

nwamalefa

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Aug 7, 2005
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In our contract we have job protection if we are bought our or merge with another airline. If we do declare bankruptcy and our contract is not thrown out by the courts we still have this protection. Here is what our contract says:

Section 1
Recognition, Scope AND Job Security

C. Successors

1. This agreemnet shall be binding upon any successor including, but not limited to, any merged company or companies, purchaser, assign, assignee, transferee, administrator, receiver, executor and/or trustee (hereinafter "successor"), of the comapny which ascuires ownership and/or control of all or substantially all of the equity securities and/or assets of the company (a "successor transaction"). The company agrees to give written notice of the terms of this agreement to a proposed successor before concluding any successor transaction. the company shall provicde the union with the provisions of any successor transaction immediately upon conclusion of such transaction.

2. In the event of a successor transaction, as defined in paragraph c.1., above, the following provisions shall apply regardeless of whether one or more than one carrier survives the transaction or whether formerly seperate operations are to be integrated.

a. The company and/or successor shall continue to recognize the union as the representative of the pre-transaction company flight attendants, so long as such recognition is consistent with the RLA and any applicable rulings or orders of the NMB.

b. Subject to applicable securities and other laws and regulations, the company shall review with the union the details of any material agreements relating to successor transactions in a timely manner, provided that no financial or other confidential business information need be disclosed unnless suitalbe arrangements are made for protecting the confidentiality and use of such information.

c. The company, or the successor if different from the company, shall continue to be the employer of all FLIGHT ATTENDANTS on the Northwest System Seniority list, including an such flight attendants on leave or furlough status at the time of the successor.

d. Where formerly separate operations eventually are to be intergrated, the two flight attendant groups shall be kepts erpareate until their seniority lists are intergrated in accordance with the rquirements of this section and the rates of pay, rules, and working conditions for the post-merger craft or class are estableished by agreement or wotherwise in conformity with the RLA.

e. So long as the two flight attendant groups remain separate, the rates of pay, rules, and working conditions set forth in this agreement shall be observed with respect to the flight attendants whose names appear on the NWA flight attendant system seniority list.
 
Don't bet on it....TWA had the same language in their contract. They were stapled to the bottom of AA and then furloughed. The only "guarantee" would apply if the merging/acquiring airline had the same f/a union. Other than that, each union is going to fight for the rights of their members. Look at APFA at AA.
 
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christopherrobin said:
Don't bet on it....TWA had the same language in their contract. They were stapled to the bottom of AA and then furloughed. The only "guarantee" would apply if the merging/acquiring airline had the same f/a union. Other than that, each union is going to fight for the rights of their members. Look at APFA at AA.
[post="287833"][/post]​


Basically the section says that whatever company buys us or we merge with, they will have to honor our whole contract. In our contract it we have a no lay off status except for an act of god. That side letter applies to all flight attendants hired before june 1, 2000. I dont know exactly what the TWA union had in their contract as far as layoffs. I also said unless a judge throws out our contract in a bankruptcy we will still be protected. I dont know if the judge threw out the flight attendants contract during their bankruptcy. Regardless I think all of the TWA flight attendants got a bad deal in that merger. If we merge with Delta, only the pilots have a union. The flight attendants do not. Our contract does not say anything about merging with another union. I dont know what would happen if we were to merge with another union.
 
nwamalefa said:
Basically the section says that whatever company buys us or we merge with, they will have to honor our whole contract.
[post="287874"][/post]​
Don't count on it.

What happens if you merge with another airline, and their contract also says all of it has to be honored, and some sections are in conflict? Something's gotta give.

If Airline A merges with Airline B, and A and B each have 5,000 F/As for a total of 10,000, and each airline has a F/A contract that says "No layoffs, no changes to the contract," etc., and the combined entity decides it needs only 7,500 F/As instead of 10,000, there are gonna be 2,500 unhappy F/As despite what their contract "guaranteed" them.
 
The TWA F/As gave up their scope provisions in return for a "fair and equitable" merger of seniority. AA promised to push the AA F/As union into using a facilitator and then AA would use the results of the facilitation process to combine the seniority list. This original "fair and equitable" promised process was memorialized in a document given to the TWA F/A union. A second letter from AA reiterated the original promise. The head of AA, Don Carty testified to these promises in Congressional hearings. It never happened, AA secretly negotiated a "staple" with the AA flight attendants union without the participation of the TWA F/A union. As a result all former TWA F/As are on the street furloughed. The matter is in the courts but the chances of a favorable outcome seem limited. So do not say it can never happen to you. It all depends on the good faith of the parties, in this case AA and the AA F/A union (APFA) showed sociopathic behavior.
 
APFA did not want us to have even one day of seniority. They are not a Union...just a selfish organization. In my 20yrs I have never seen a staple job the likes of TWA & RENO.

Beware NW f/a's your scope is has good as ours was. Our IAM gave it away without a say from 4,200 TWA f/a's. I pray that none of you have to go through what we went through.
 
L1011Ret said:
The TWA F/As gave up their scope provisions in return for a "fair and equitable" merger of seniority. AA promised to push the AA F/As union into using a facilitator and then AA would use the results of the facilitation process to combine the seniority list. This original "fair and equitable" promised process was memorialized in a document given to the TWA F/A union. A second letter from AA reiterated the original promise. The head of AA, Don Carty testified to these promises in Congressional hearings. It never happened, AA secretly negotiated a "staple" with the AA flight attendants union without the participation of the TWA F/A union. As a result all former TWA F/As are on the street furloughed. The matter is in the courts but the chances of a favorable outcome seem limited. So do not say it can never happen to you. It all depends on the good faith of the parties, in this case AA and the AA F/A union (APFA) showed sociopathic behavior.
[post="288034"][/post]​


Mr. Carty was writing checks he couldn't cash . . . he knew it . . . . the AA unions knew it . . . . and the TWA unions knew it. They simply didn't have any choice in the matter. TWA was essentially bought on the courthouse steps. The TWA unions aren't stupid. They knew Carty didn't have the power to force the AA unions to give favorable integration. The TWA unions knew they had no cards to play and therefor gave up seniority rights just to save some jobs.
 
Your explanation is nonsense, the APFA Mergers and Acquisition committee promised the TWAers would not be stapled.
 
galleyguy4u2 said:
APFA did not want us to have even one day of seniority. They are not a Union...just a selfish organization. In my 20yrs I have never seen a staple job the likes of TWA & RENO.

Beware NW f/a's your scope is has good as ours was. Our IAM gave it away without a say from 4,200 TWA f/a's. I pray that none of you have to go through what we went through.
[post="288076"][/post]​
Not fimilar with how SWA does it. There you get nothing but an interview. If hired your seniority is the DOA.
 
L1011Ret said:
The TWA F/As gave up their scope provisions in return for a "fair and equitable" merger of seniority.


Well didnt their Scope provide that in your opinion? It doesnt make sense. They feel they should have been dovetailed which their scope provisions would have given them, then why did they agree to give it up?

AA promised to push the AA F/As union into using a facilitator and then AA would use the results of the facilitation process to combine the seniority list. This original "fair and equitable" promised process was memorialized in a document given to the TWA F/A union. A second letter from AA reiterated the original promise. The head of AA, Don Carty testified to these promises in Congressional hearings.

AA did not have the right to make the APFA grant anyone seniority.

It never happened, AA secretly negotiated a "staple" with the AA flight attendants union without the participation of the TWA F/A union. As a result all former TWA F/As are on the street furloughed. The matter is in the courts but the chances of a favorable outcome seem limited. So do not say it can never happen to you. It all depends on the good faith of the parties, in this case AA and the AA F/A union (APFA) showed sociopathic behavior.

Actually you can blame the IAM. They gave away your scope clause. What did the AA FA have to gain from the aquisition? They had nothing to gain so why should they pay the price and step aside so TWA flight attendants could take their jobs at AA? The IAM had the option, fight for your scope, and put the aquisition deal at risk, or waive it so they could get the monies that TWA owed them for the pension. They chose the money and let the TWA workers out on their own.

The PFAA only represents NWA flight attendants, so if they are merged they will cease to exist, therefore they have no incentive to ever waive anything in their scope clause. A similar situation happened at Ozark airlines which was reprersented by AMFA. Ozark was bought by TWA, the OZARK mechs, despite the fact that AMFA was not AFL-CIO affiliated and the IAM hated AMFA were dovetailed because the AMFA language would have blocked the aquisition if they werent.
 
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Bear96 said:
Don't count on it.

What happens if you merge with another airline, and their contract also says all of it has to be honored, and some sections are in conflict? Something's gotta give.

If Airline A merges with Airline B, and A and B each have 5,000 F/As for a total of 10,000, and each airline has a F/A contract that says "No layoffs, no changes to the contract," etc., and the combined entity decides it needs only 7,500 F/As instead of 10,000, there are gonna be 2,500 unhappy F/As despite what their contract "guaranteed" them.
[post="287979"][/post]​


There are about 9-10k fligght attendants.
 
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Bear96 said:
Don't count on it.

What happens if you merge with another airline, and their contract also says all of it has to be honored, and some sections are in conflict? Something's gotta give.

If Airline A merges with Airline B, and A and B each have 5,000 F/As for a total of 10,000, and each airline has a F/A contract that says "No layoffs, no changes to the contract," etc., and the combined entity decides it needs only 7,500 F/As instead of 10,000, there are gonna be 2,500 unhappy F/As despite what their contract "guaranteed" them.
[post="287979"][/post]​

We have about 10500 flight attendants on the seniority list. Eveyone is back to work who chose to come back. I am guessing around 9500-10k. I dont know how many retirees there are going to be this year, plus the normal attrition rate. We get new seniority numbers in September.
 
Bob Owens said:
L1011Ret said:
The TWA F/As gave up their scope provisions in return for a "fair and equitable" merger of seniority.
Well didnt their Scope provide that in your opinion? It doesnt make sense. They feel they should have been dovetailed which their scope provisions would have given them, then why did they agree to give it up?

AA promised to push the AA F/As union into using a facilitator and then AA would use the results of the facilitation process to combine the seniority list. This original "fair and equitable" promised process was memorialized in a document given to the TWA F/A union. A second letter from AA reiterated the original promise. The head of AA, Don Carty testified to these promises in Congressional hearings.

AA did not have the right to make the APFA grant anyone seniority.

It never happened, AA secretly negotiated a "staple" with the AA flight attendants union without the participation of the TWA F/A union. As a result all former TWA F/As are on the street furloughed. The matter is in the courts but the chances of a favorable outcome seem limited. So do not say it can never happen to you. It all depends on the good faith of the parties, in this case AA and the AA F/A union (APFA) showed sociopathic behavior.

Actually you can blame the IAM. They gave away your scope clause. What did the AA FA have to gain from the aquisition? They had nothing to gain so why should they pay the price and step aside so TWA flight attendants could take their jobs at AA? The IAM had the option, fight for your scope, and put the aquisition deal at risk, or waive it so they could get the monies that TWA owed them for the pension. They chose the money and let the TWA workers out on their own.

The PFAA only represents NWA flight attendants, so if they are merged they will cease to exist, therefore they have no incentive to ever waive anything in their scope clause. A similar situation happened at Ozark airlines which was reprersented by AMFA. Ozark was bought by TWA, the OZARK mechs, despite the fact that AMFA was not AFL-CIO affiliated and the IAM hated AMFA were dovetailed because the AMFA language would have blocked the aquisition if they werent.

[post="288223"][/post]​

From your post, I see you really do not know much about the issue.
 
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