Oil nears $110/bbl

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

I do love the smell of capitalism, more precisely, I love the smell of an efficient market. It gives you the opportunity to do something about price.. if you don't want to pay that much, then don't buy it. If enough people agree with you and also stop buying it, the price will drop.

Why should someone be able to force me to sell my lemonade for $.25, when I know full-well that my buyers are willing to spend $.50?

Speaking of your first "cup," have you recognized what is happening to Starbucks... perhaps people no longer want to pay that much for coffee?

Yes... I know this is a very simple way to look at it, but the principle still works.

I haven't been to the gas pump this year yet; my tolerance level was reached years ago! Eventually the market will catch up with me... it will likely be in the form of alternative fuel sources. The market is working... if you want it to work quicker to your advantage, then stop buying the product!

We have bargaining power, the public just chooses not to use it.

*** NHBB, it is not capitalism at any cost. Companies and individuals have moral obligations. I just don't think that offering a product at a price a willing buyer will pay is necessarily immoral. In fact, it could be considered immoral to FORCE someone to offer a product at a price below what the willing buyers will pay.

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Lily,

"WHY" are we GIVING these A$$ HOLES, MULTI MILLION $$ TAX BREAKS ???

(PLEASE answer STUPID OL" ME(my words) in SIMPLE language that I can Understand)

You mention that, while you, or the Attendant, are pumping your "petrol", that you "understand", when you pay. Is that what your've saying to me ? (going on the assumption that YOU consume gasoline)

Next question,

If the OC's are told DIRECTLY, that the "checks" may be coming to a halt, on 1/20/09, do you feel that the price will CONTINUE to SKY ROCKET ?

(I DON'T think so, but if they DO, then youve sold me on "whatever the MARKET will BEAR) !!!


??????????

 

[USAir757]

"WHY" are we GIVING these A$$ HOLES, MULTI MILLION $$ TAX BREAKS ???

(PLEASE answer STUPID OL" ME(my words) in SIMPLE language that I can Understand)

I'll take a stab at it:

1) The tax breaks are meant to be used directly for research into alternative fuel methods... OR
2) The tax breaks are meant to subsidize the artificially low fuel prices the U.S. has been paying for a long time. Why do you think in Europe they've been paying nearly 2-2.5 times more per liter than we do?

Of course, neither of these things matter because in the end, as I said before, we are to blame for our own dependance on the product that these companies are offering. If we roll back tax breaks on these guys, all they have to do is take what they lose in breaks and move it on over to the pump. Either way you are paying for it!!! So why does it matter? So long as they have us by the N*ts, they're going to get their money, so debating how they get it is futile.

I do love the smell of capitalism, more precisely, I love the smell of an efficient market. It gives you the opportunity to do something about price.. if you don't want to pay that much, then don't buy it. If enough people agree with you and also stop buying it, the price will drop.

Why should someone be able to force me to sell my lemonade for $.25, when I know full-well that my buyers are willing to spend $.50?

Speaking of your first "cup," have you recognized what is happening to Starbucks... perhaps people no longer want to pay that much for coffee?

I couldn't agree with you more. We've seen time and time again that Socialism and communism are unsuccesful market structures... you need only look to the U.S.S.R., China, Cuba, etc. to see the deplorable conditions people live under when the Government is in charge of all the money. So, maybe it is "CAPITALI$M AT ANY CO$T".... because the alternatives are horrifying. If history has taught us anything, it's that a fair market has the most opportunity to allow the people to control their own prices and markets. Starbucks is a perfect example. The oil companies can charge whatever we are willing to pay, because we're addicted to the product. But we say they're the bad guy? When it's US that's BUYING it???? Simply because they won't pass a huge discount onto the largest consumer of product in the world (an increasingly finite product, I might add), doesn't make them a** holes.

If these people anger you, the best (only) thing you can do is do what Lily did, boycott the product.

 

[Garfield1966]

2) The tax breaks are meant to subsidize the artificially low fuel prices the U.S. has been paying for a long time. Why do you think in Europe they've been paying nearly 2-2.5 times more per liter than we do?

Wait a sec. If the ME is selling oil at $x.xx a barrel that is the cost if the US buys it or the EU right? My understanding is that the reason the people in the EU (and the rest of the world pay so much at the pump is th extra taxes that the EU charges. The cost of the oil/fuel is the same.

I do not care to use Wiki as a source but after a bit of searching this was all I could find Fuel tax break down. If you go down about 2/3 of the way you will find the tax break down for the US and for the UK. UK tax is about 190% of the fule cost while the tax in the US comes out to about 30% give or take.

We seem to all paying the same for fuel, it's just that the EU and the rest of the world are taxing the hell out of the users.

 

[delldude]

Wait a sec. If the ME is selling oil at $x.xx a barrel that is the cost if the US buys it or the EU right? My understanding is that the reason the people in the EU (and the rest of the world pay so much at the pump is th extra taxes that the EU charges. The cost of the oil/fuel is the same.

I do not care to use Wiki as a source but after a bit of searching this was all I could find Fuel tax break down. If you go down about 2/3 of the way you will find the tax break down for the US and for the UK. UK tax is about 190% of the fule cost while the tax in the US comes out to about 30% give or take.

We seem to all paying the same for fuel, it's just that the EU and the rest of the world are taxing the hell out of the users.

Taxes and delivery methods make the difference for the most part.US has the underground pipe line while Euro trucks most around..which affects the end cost.Just because they pay $6 US at the euro pump doesn't mean US consumers are getting over at a lower price and should pay more because they do.

 

[jimntx]

There's also the issue that the major oil companies buy and sell crude oil and product to each other. Often Company A sells 100,00 bbls of crude to Company B for some amount/bbl. They then turn around and buy back the exact same 100,000 bbls from Company B at a higher price. The product never leaves Company A's inventory. When they refine the crude they then pass on the higher price to the consumer.

Hey, but that's capitalism, isn't it?

And, yes it does happen. I built the computer system at Texaco that supported that activity. Last I heard,it is still in use at Chevron. Chevron liked the system I built more than their own system.

 

[USAir757]

Ok, so wouldn't it be fair to estimate that if the federal government were to roll back tax breaks that are given to energy comanies, specifically oil companies, that they would immediately build that loss of revenue directly into their unit pricing? Keeping in mind what jimntx has just confirmed, that oil companies do indeed trade inventory at their pleasure, therefore it doesn't matter which company you buy your gas at, the Governments hands are tied. We will either pay for it in the form of tax dollars (lost tax revenue), or pay for it up front at the pump.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

The Pioneer station is selling gas for....."$1.01" for regular.
It's in St. Catharines Ont. , just the other side of Niagara Falls.

How come half of BUFFALO NY, is getting gas there this morning ????????????

Maybe our GOOD FRIENDS in CANADA, don't BELIEVE in...Capitalism....At "ANY" COST.



Lily, I'm patiently awaiting your reply, from my last post to you !

 

[KCFlyer]

The Pioneer station is selling gas for....."$1.01" for regular.
It's in St. Catharines Ont. , just the other side of Niagara Falls.

How come half of BUFFALO NY, is getting gas there this morning ????????????

Maybe our GOOD FRIENDS in CANADA, don't BELIEVE in...Capitalism....At "ANY" COST.



Lily, I'm patiently awaiting your reply, from my last post to you !

Bears....in Canada, the price is per Liter...the metric system. That amounts to about $4 a gallon.

 

[USAir757]

Maybe our GOOD FRIENDS in CANADA, don't BELIEVE in...Capitalism....At "ANY" COST.

Plus CANADA pays through the A** in income taxes!!! My brother in Vancouver is in a 54% tax bracket.... yup, that means that he takes home 46% of what he makes! That's INSANE! Plus extremely high property taxes, sales taxes, etc. I'll take the $10.00 a gallon before I let our government start raping me of that kind of income.

 

[Gilding the Lily]

The Pioneer station is selling gas for....."$1.01" for regular.
It's in St. Catharines Ont. , just the other side of Niagara Falls.

How come half of BUFFALO NY, is getting gas there this morning ????????????

UH!?!?! Bears, perhaps you should convert that to the price per GALLON, rather than the price per LITRE!!! The lowest in bufallo is $3.12 per GALLON. Do the conversion and I think you might find that you just completely negated your argument. (i.e., i can almost guarantee you that the Canadian price is more than $3.12 per GALLON).

You still standby your statement that half of Buffalo NY is getting gas in Canada this morning???????

Maybe our GOOD FRIENDS in CANADA, don't BELIEVE in...Capitalism....At "ANY" COST.

Maybe that is why they are paying more across the river.

Lily, I'm patiently awaiting your reply, from my last post to you !

Your patience will be tested. You are going to have to wait a while because I have no idea what you are even asking! Does anyone else? (see your question again below, and maybe rephrase)
V
V
V

You mention that, while you, or the Attendant, are pumping your "petrol", that you "understand", when you pay. Is that what your've saying to me ? (going on the assumption that YOU consume gasoline)

?!?!?!?!?!? :wacko:

 

[KCFlyer]

I'll take a stab at it:

1) The tax breaks are meant to be used directly for research into alternative fuel methods... OR
2) The tax breaks are meant to subsidize the artificially low fuel prices the U.S. has been paying for a long time. Why do you think in Europe they've been paying nearly 2-2.5 times more per liter than we do?

1. That one isn't working. The most any oil company has devoted to alternative fuel methods is a fraction of 1% of their profits

2. I don't think it's that one either - the tax breaks were supposed to "create jobs" - with things like building new refineries and hiring people to work them. But the oil companies haven't wanted to do that, citing their concerns about the focus on ethanol.

So instead - the tax breaks went to the investors and execs at the oil companies.

 

[Garfield1966]

Who here believes that the oil companies are going to invest in technology that will reduce or eventually eliminate their company? The R&D they are doing is either to figure out whats out there so they an buy the patents and for PR.

The tax breaks should be rescinded and money should be given out like the private firm did for the "X" prize for the first space flight by a private enterprise. The government could also be giving research grants to various universities and groups for R&D. The fact that we put a man on the moon over 30 years ago yet we are still using an internal combustion engine that is over 100 years old just does not make any sense to me.

 

[American Air Surf]

Who here believes that the oil companies are going to invest in technology that will reduce or eventually eliminate their company? The R&D they are doing is either to figure out whats out there so they an buy the patents and for PR.

The tax breaks should be rescinded and money should be given out like the private firm did for the "X" prize for the first space flight by a private enterprise. The government could also be giving research grants to various universities and groups for R&D. The fact that we put a man on the moon over 30 years ago yet we are still using an internal combustion engine that is over 100 years old just does not make any sense to me.

Garfield-

1.) The oil companies need these profits, they are loosing their reserves. We use 6/br, for everyone we find.

2.) Inregard to alternatives. IF ALL THE INFRASTRUSTURE WERE IN PLACE, AND ALL ALTERNATIVES WERE IN PLACE ..TODAY. IT WOULD ONLY REPLACE 4% OF U.S. OIL PRODUCTION.

WHY DO YOU THINK THE OIL COMPANIES ARE MERGING? THEY ARE LOOSING THEIR RESERVES, REMEMBER WHEN SHELL MISTATED THEIR RESERVES, AND THOSE EXECUTIVE GOT FIRED? GEEZZZZ, PEOPLE........

3.) QUESTION- WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE GOING TO THE CANADIAN OIL SANDS? POLAR REGIONS, ULTRA-DEEP WATER? BECAUSE THE EASY OIL /WTI/ IS GONE, DEPLETING. IT WILL GET MUCH WORSE FROM HEAR ON OUT......

 

[KCFlyer]

Garfield-

1.) The oil companies need these profits, they are loosing their reserves. We use 6/br, for everyone we find.

Yet we still love our SUV's.

 

[Garfield1966]

They need the profits? Pardon me while I try and work up a tear. Every company needs profits. Those that are successful will get profits, those that are not will fail. I do not see the need for government to support them on my dime. The fact we have been been 'supporting' the oil companies in one form or another has delayed the inevitable.

I do not know where you get the 4% from but if we would ave been investing in solar/wind for home power and alternate fuels (fuel cells/electric/hydrogen) for the past several decades (like when Carter suggested it) I am certain we would have replaced far ore than 4% of our oil use.

The Telsa has a 200 mile range. Each house could have a solar panel on the roof that would generate more than enough power to charge the battery for the car each day. The more people who buy a Telsa and a solar panel the cheaper they become. Do you realize how much oil would be saved if each person commuted in an electric car that was charged by a small solar panel on their roof? Do you realize how quickly the advances in solar/electric power would come if there was a demand for it? Hell look at the cell phones from 10-15 years ago to today. Look at the computing power on your desk top and compare it to 5 yeas ago much less 10 or 15 years.

Finding more oil is not going to help anyone or anything. Getting rid of the oil companies and investing in clean power is what will save us.