' Onward CHRISTIAN.....$$$$$$$$$$.....SOLDIERS '

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Chock jockey;     I 'dig the part where you say you WHERE a christian !
 
'Tree, as you well KNOW,christianity..Was and Is,.." The GREATEST Story ever Told". (Scratch That)" "(Ever S O L D )" "!
 
Gotta' give them credit though.  Christianity's SALES FORCE.is Second to NONE  !! Those dudes have a  A A A A+ rating !
 
All in all, I basically have no problem with  " J C ", minus the Immaculate conception HORSE SHIIT, the LEVATATION Thing, and the convenient lack of knowledge of when the dude was born, coupled with the picking and choosing of which Gospels made it into the final printing of the "Book" !
 
Thomas and Phillip, and even Judas are Still Pissed off  !!!!!!!!!!
 
Believing...and Faith are all well and good.
 
I 'believe' that people do........'Hit' the Power-ball jackpot !
And I have Faith that when I buy a ticket, that I Will win.  (Helll, why else would i buy a ticket ) ?

 

[Ms Tree]

That's the part you're missing -- you want it to be rational when all that's required is a leap of faith.

There is a lt more to it than faith. You have to be willing to set aside all the proof around you that contradicts the 'faith''. You also have to be arrogant enough to believe that you have found the true meaning and that the billions of people who believe other wise are wrong.

Personally I really do not care one way or the other. I know I have led a good life and if (huge if) there is some being out there that I will be fine. There are billions of people who believe things that are different from what you believe. I'm perfectly contet to go to where ever they are going. I have no interest in any god that would be that punitive or petty. Besides if I am wrong it's your gods fault anyway. It made me so why be pissed at me fo behaving the way I do. That's like programming a computer and being pissed off when it does not do as you want.

 

[ChockJockey]

There is a lt more to it than faith. You have to be willing to set aside all the proof around you that contradicts the 'faith''. You also have to be arrogant enough to believe that you have found the true meaning and that the billions of people who believe other wise are wrong.

Personally I really do not care one way or the other. I know I have led a good life and if (huge if) there is some being out there that I will be fine. There are billions of people who believe things that are different from what you believe. I'm perfectly contet to go to where ever they are going. I have no interest in any god that would be that punitive or petty. Besides if I am wrong it's your gods fault anyway. It made me so why be pissed at me fo behaving the way I do. That's like programming a computer and being pissed off when it does not do as you want.

 
When it comes to religion, people ultimately believe what they do not by virtue of sober and objective analysis of claims, they believe what they do because of the need for those claims to be true.  This is why otherwise rational, intelligent people believe absurd and irrational things, that the almighty cares about what they eat, what they wear, that they must mutilate the genitals of their newborns, that god sent an angel to a virgin, or an illiterate Arab merchant, or an unscrupulous con man in upstate New York, and so on.
 
Humans are superstitious and credulous things; being a physical entity in a physical world with intelligence enough to comprehend one's own death, it's immensely comforting to believe that the forces of nature, terrifying in their power, are the result of an all-powerful human will and ego similar and sympathetic to one's own (so long as the proper oaths and sacrifices are rendered to the gods or god).
 
My faith informs me that if there is a god, or some similar force, it transcends the schemes of salvation and damnation of the Bibles and Qurans.  I see existence and the universe as being ineffably and infinitely beautiful and mysterious and I don't know if there's any inherent purpose to it as humans understand purpose and to me it does not really matter.  I can appreciate and practice love, justice, compassion and solidarity well enough without the need for original sin or vicarious redemption.

 

[signals]

Are you saying that someone who leads a good life, helps his fellow man but does not believe in the right god will not go to heaven or what ever the religion believes in? Is your god really that petty and punitive?

Actually there is only one way to get to heaven, and I'm not going to waste my breath. Deeds don't count anymore than those who believe they can buy their way.

 

[Ms Tree]

 
When it comes to religion, people ultimately believe what they do not by virtue of sober and objective analysis of claims, they believe what they do because of the need for those claims to be true.  This is why otherwise rational, intelligent people believe absurd and irrational things, that the almighty cares about what they eat, what they wear, that they must mutilate the genitals of their newborns, that god sent an angel to a virgin, or an illiterate Arab merchant, or an unscrupulous con man in upstate New York, and so on.
 
Humans are superstitious and credulous things; being a physical entity in a physical world with intelligence enough to comprehend one's own death, it's immensely comforting to believe that the forces of nature, terrifying in their power, are the result of an all-powerful human will and ego similar and sympathetic to one's own (so long as the proper oaths and sacrifices are rendered to the gods or god).
 
My faith informs me that if there is a god, or some similar force, it transcends the schemes of salvation and damnation of the Bibles and Qurans.  I see existence and the universe as being ineffably and infinitely beautiful and mysterious and I don't know if there's any inherent purpose to it as humans understand purpose and to me it does not really matter.  I can appreciate and practice love, justice, compassion and solidarity well enough without the need for original sin or vicarious redemption.

 
 
I agree with all that you have said but most importantly the portion I highlighted.  I find it quite disturbing that people believe mortality is contingent on the existence of religion.  As if in 01 BCE or 2,000 BCE morality did not exist.  How sad is it that man thinks they have to be good to their fellow man just because some god says so in stead of doing it because it's the right thing to do and because that is how they wish to be treated.  
 
I am sure you know it's coming but I will bet pennies to dollars that La La and a few others will be all over you like white on rice for this blasphemy you have posted.

 

[signals]

I have arrived at the conclusion a long time ago that the god(s) of religion are all false. It contradicts all manner of logic to think that a god would create something, give it free will and the punish it for exercising this free will even though the person has lead a good life. That defines insanity. I believe that if there is some sort of God or what ever, that people will be judged on how they have conducted their life. To judge otherwise would just plain stupid.

Proof that you are clueless, and don't know what you are talking about when it comes to God. The Bible says that God is foolishness to you, and you prove it right.

 

[Ms Tree]

Since the thread derailed a bit back lets keep going with it.  I have been telling many on this board that you have to be careful what you wish for because you just might get it.  Many here have supported in one way or another some form of public prayer.  Well, there was a court case that went all the way to the SCOTUS.  the case is Town of Greece v. Galloway.  The court ruled in favor of the town of Greese.  There was a stipulation that minority faiths cannot be discriminated against.  According to the article when the case was decided the religious right was thrilled with their victory.  Now, not so much.  Why?  Because the birds came back to roost.  A pagan was allowed to perform the opening invocation.  Now, the religious right is not too happy.  OH well.  You wanted freedom, now you have it so suck on it.
 
I keep telling people that if you want a monument of the 10 commandments on public property then I get to put up a satanic octagon or a wiccan pentagram right next to it.  The other option would be to just keep all religion out of the public arena and keep it private like it should be.  
 
Thank you Scalia.  I bet that dumb ass did not see that coming.
 
http://youtu.be/RjkwPK8HuKQ

 

[KCFlyer]

Actually there is only one way to get to heaven, and I'm not going to waste my breath. Deeds don't count anymore than those who believe they can buy their way.

What is that one way?  I have heard that the only way to get to heaven is to accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour.  But the Catholics don't teach that, so that confused the hell out of me since I was raised Catholic and apparently they were dooming me to eternal hell.  
 
Reminds me of a joke I heard a couple of Sundays ago at the "church" I attend
 
A Buddhist dies and goes to the gates of heaven, where St Peter greets him.  He looks at the list and says "Ah...a Buddhist....go down that hall and into door number 15, but be very quiet passing door number 3"
 
Next up was a Catholic.  St Peter reviews the papers and says "Go down the hall and into door number 25, but be very quiet passing door number 3"
 
Next was a Hindu.  Again, St Peter said "Go down the hall and into door number 16, but be very quiet passing door number 3"
 
Next up was a Jew.  And St Peter said "Go down the hall and into door number 12, but be very quiet passing door number 3".  Before leaving, the man asked "I have watched those preceding me and I must ask....why must we be quite passing door number 3".  St Peter replied 'Oh, those are the Baptists, and they think they're the only ones here".

 

[eolesen]

I find it quite disturbing that people believe mortality is contingent on the existence of religion.  As if in 01 BCE or 2,000 BCE morality did not exist.  How sad is it that man thinks they have to be good to their fellow man just because some god says so in stead of doing it because it's the right thing to do and because that is how they wish to be treated.

Religion demands morality and humility, not the other way around.

 

[Ms Tree]

I believe morality, humility, conscious and everything else is independent of religion.   Humans have and can exist with out religion.  Religion cannot survive if no one believes.

 

[Ms Tree]

What is that one way?  I have heard that the only way to get to heaven is to accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour.  But the Catholics don't teach that, so that confused the hell out of me since I was raised Catholic and apparently they were dooming me to eternal hell.  
 
Reminds me of a joke I heard a couple of Sundays ago at the "church" I attend
 
A Buddhist dies and goes to the gates of heaven, where St Peter greets him.  He looks at the list and says "Ah...a Buddhist....go down that hall and into door number 15, but be very quiet passing door number 3"
 
Next up was a Catholic.  St Peter reviews the papers and says "Go down the hall and into door number 25, but be very quiet passing door number 3"
 
Next was a Hindu.  Again, St Peter said "Go down the hall and into door number 16, but be very quiet passing door number 3"
 
Next up was a Jew.  And St Peter said "Go down the hall and into door number 12, but be very quiet passing door number 3".  Before leaving, the man asked "I have watched those preceding me and I must ask....why must we be quite passing door number 3".  St Peter replied 'Oh, those are the Baptists, and they think they're the only ones here".

Funny joke, but dont they all believe they are the only ones with the answer?
 
The arrogance of the person you quoted is what I believe is wrong with organized religion.  They arrogantly believe they know the truth, the only truth and everyone else, the billions of people who also believe that they know the truth, the only truth, are all wrong.  The audacity is mind boggling. 

 

[KCFlyer]

Funny joke, but dont they all believe they are the only ones with the answer?
 

Actually, the pastor at my "church"....and yes, it's a church, but it teaches spirituality over "religion"...described spirituality of that oneness with God.  He equated religion to a cookbook...it teaches you how to do it.  The only problem is, one religion "cookbook" says "use one cup of sugar", while the other says "no no no....you use two half cups of sugar", and yet a third one says "wrong....you use 4 quarter cups of sugar" and yet another says "the proper way is to use one half cup and two quarter cups of sugar".    They are all shooting at the same target, but each believes that theirs is the only "right" way to do it.  
 
Personally, I think organized religions are based on fear to scare people into doing what they want.  I personally don't think God is some bearded white guy, sitting on a throne with little else to do than make a list of how each person on earth is screwing up and planning their punishment accordingly.   You do what we say or you are doomed to eternal damnation and the fires of hell.  My father was a Methodist, yet he often asked "If God is all loving and all forgiving, could he send someone to hell".  
 
Apparently many believe that a guy who lived a good life and did many a good deed for others is doomed to hell because he didn't accept Jesus as his Lord and Saviour.  But a murderer on death row can sit with Jesus if he has a jailhouse conversion...repents his sins and accepts Jesus as his personal Lord and Savior. 
 
I don't know if there is an afterlife.  I am kind, generous, loving and do no harm to others.  I believe that there is a God.  But I don't believe that I must to X,Y and Z if I am to ever see him.   I might be wrong and I'll be looking up at all the good Christians who happened to belong to the "right" religion.  On the other hand, if THEY are wrong, they might get to the Pearly gates and find St Peter chatting it up with Rock Hudson and Freddie Mercury. 

 

[Ms Tree]

Or all of us will be looking up at the Romans, or the Greeks or the Hindus or the native Americans or .... who knows who has the right answer or if anyone has the right answer. 
 
I definitely like your churches POV.

 

[Ms Tree]

For got one other 'or'. All of the people (Hindus, christians, muslims, pagans, Wiccans...) who lead decent lives and did their best are looking down on the Manson and Stalins of the world.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Christianity.
"The GREATEST Story Ever Told".......(Scratch That),...................." EVER   S O L D "    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I'm old enough to remember (back in the mid 50's going forward) when christianity HATED the Jews, and had NOTHING to do with them.  NOTHING !!!!  (Something to do with Jesus getting 'ratted-out' and crucified).
Down in that Cess Pool called the SOUTH (again, back in the early 50's for example), the "KLAN took you out" in this priority order;
1. Black guy
2. a  J E W   !!!!!!!!!
3. a 'Communist
4. a YANKEE
5. and a CATHOLIC(if you really pissed them off)
etc.
But WAIT....WHOA.  All you hear NOW is this Phoney bull-shiit expression especially from the christian end is,..............."JUDAO-CHRISTIAN this"...and "JUDAO-CHRISTIAN that "  !!
 
SO 'WHAT the Helll is going on here"
C'mon eolesen, Jump right in here !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Methinks it's got something to do with all the lack of ASSS'S in the Pews nowadays - $$$$$$$$$$$$.
 
These Kids today are NOT buying into the blatent christian Horse-SHIIT.
BUT I bet the JEWS are NOT seeing the attendance problem as bad !
 
 
 
 
 
KCF.
Good to see you 'back around' !
Your place of worship sounds like a good choice for you !
I'm glad !!