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Osama is dead

how truth?

Show us his body!


Why would you believe a picture?

mrs-doubtfire.jpg


Granted this is somewhat primitive but you get the point or may be not given your post. Do you think the CIA has ne or two people in their employment who know there way around some photo editing software? Obama presented his short and long form BC and people still do not believe he is a natural US citizen. And you think a photo is going to prove anything in this day and age? Have you never watched a movie or TV program where someone gets killed?

Get real.
 
The delicious sound of millions of liberals heads having a collective meltdown and hissy fit.

CIA chief: Waterboarding aided bin Laden raid
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/42880435/ns/world_news-south_and_central_asia/ 

WASHINGTON — Intelligence garnered from waterboarded detainees was used to track down al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden and kill him, CIA Chief Leon Panetta told NBC News on Tuesday.
 
The delicious sound of millions of liberals heads having a collective meltdown and hissy fit.

CIA chief: Waterboarding aided bin Laden raid
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/42880435/ns/world_news-south_and_central_asia/ 

WASHINGTON — Intelligence garnered from waterboarded detainees was used to track down al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden and kill him, CIA Chief Leon Panetta told NBC News on Tuesday.

We're on a slippery slope with waterboarding. Once that tactic is readily accepted then what's next? Electrodes on genitalia?

Waterboarding as an interrogation technique does as we have heard WORK and works well. OTOH, if we say we are a Judeo-Christian nation and uphold those values then where does that leave Waterboarding?

Maybe I'm to cynical & untrusting of our Government but for me it's a very short distance from a waterboard to the ovens of Dacau. Of course I'm not certain bring OBL to justice gets us anything more then a few days of jubilation before the next catastrophic action by his organization. Maybe Bush didn't catch him for a reason????
 
We're on a slippery slope with waterboarding. Once that tactic is readily accepted then what's next? Electrodes on genitalia?

Waterboarding as an interrogation technique does as we have heard WORK and works well. OTOH, if we say we are a Judeo-Christian nation and uphold those values then where does that leave Waterboarding?

Maybe I'm to cynical & untrusting of our Government but for me it's a very short distance from a waterboard to the ovens of Dacau. Of course I'm not certain bring OBL to justice gets us anything more then a few days of jubilation before the next catastrophic action by his organization. Maybe Bush didn't catch him for a reason????

Splashing some water on a couple of guys to save hundreds if not thousands of lives is bad but killing innocent civilians via nuclear bombs, drones, etc., is ok?

And then comparing said technique to mass killings in Nazi Germany? That's a bit over the top I must say. How can you be ok with a government entering a sovereign nation and assassinate someone, yet feel conflicted on the methods that sent them their?
 
Splashing some water on a couple of guys to save hundreds if not thousands of lives is bad but killing innocent civilians via nuclear bombs, drones, etc., is ok?

And then comparing said technique to mass killings in Nazi Germany? That's a bit over the top I must say. How can you be ok with a government entering a sovereign nation and assassinate someone, yet feel conflicted on the methods that sent them their?

Frankly, I'm not comfortable with ANY of it. We never should have been in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya or Pakistan. As to the CIA and our "Special Ops" folks I think using them judiciously is OK. This IMO should have been a covert mission where essentially OBL "Woke up Dead" and we say "Wasn't us, must have been his own people"

IMO, If we had kept the mission as secret as possible we would have instilled a level of fear throughout the terrorist network that we will find you and kill you and there isn't a thing you can do about it. But instead Obama goes public in an attempt to boost his reelection effort thereby losing the fear factor that could have been used effectively in combating terror.

I think Obama's next move should be the publication of a top ten "Wanted List" along with a public pronouncement that they can surrender or meet the same fate as OBL. We have a victory of sorts and it's time we exploit our opportunity big time. I will NEVER be totally comfortable with waterboarding, I've resigned myself to that. I am however perfectly content to allow the CIA to do what they do in the way of clandestine activities. Like killing OBL. As long as it's not a duly elected head of state or government official I think it's a tool that we need and a tool that we should use when needed.

If you recall the Libertarian view that the military's prime mission is to defend the shores from invasion then one can easily make the argument for attacking OBL. What is much more of a stretch are the above mentioned incursions.
 
Frankly, I'm not comfortable with ANY of it. We never should have been in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya or Pakistan. As to the CIA and our "Special Ops" folks I think using them judiciously is OK. This IMO should have been a covert mission where essentially OBL "Woke up Dead" and we say "Wasn't us, must have been his own people"

IMO, If we had kept the mission as secret as possible we would have instilled a level of fear throughout the terrorist network that we will find you and kill you and there isn't a thing you can do about it. But instead Obama goes public in an attempt to boost his reelection effort thereby losing the fear factor that could have been used effectively in combating terror.

I think Obama's next move should be the publication of a top ten "Wanted List" along with a public pronouncement that they can surrender or meet the same fate as OBL. We have a victory of sorts and it's time we exploit our opportunity big time. I will NEVER be totally comfortable with waterboarding, I've resigned myself to that. I am however perfectly content to allow the CIA to do what they do in the way of clandestine activities. Like killing OBL. As long as it's not a duly elected head of state or government official I think it's a tool that we need and a tool that we should use when needed.

If you recall the Libertarian view that the military's prime mission is to defend the shores from invasion then one can easily make the argument for attacking OBL. What is much more of a stretch are the above mentioned incursions.

I know what your are saying but that genie left the bottle decades ago. Trying to stuff it back in is not realistic.

Was it an unprovoked attack that the Japanese hit pearl harbor? No, it was in retaliation of the USA instilling an oil embargo for oil that was already paid for. The USA imposed such embargo as punishment for the Japanese invasion of China. If we never got involved and stayed neutral as in typical libertarian views, then we would not have been attacked (yet).

Given the choice of neutrality or imperialism I choose the later.
 
I know what your are saying but that genie left the bottle decades ago. Trying to stuff it back in is not realistic.

Was it an unprovoked attack that the Japanese hit pearl harbor? No, it was in retaliation of the USA instilling an oil embargo for oil that was already paid for. The USA imposed such embargo as punishment for the Japanese invasion of China. If we never got involved and stayed neutral as in typical libertarian views, then we would not have been attacked (yet).

Given the choice of neutrality or imperialism I choose the later.

Switzerland has gotten along quite nicely being neutral. So we have a fundamental difference of opinion there.

I'd like to try stuffing the genie back one more time though. Also there is a very fine line between isolationism and neutrality. You mentioned the Japanese response to our oil embargo. The isolationists were clearly wrong in the 30's as are those who advocate it now. We're to damn big economically to withdraw from the world arena entirely. I think the best approach would be frankly more hands off with more diplomacy, along with the advice and consent of Congress before we make a move like Libya.

There is a middle ground and we not near it IMO.
 
The other problem with enhanced interrogation is that it is not reliable and produces a plethora of false information. There was a article a while back written by or an interview (I cannot remember which) with a former FBI interrogator. He gave an example of one of their high value prisoners. He was a member of OBL's inner circle. Instead of torturing him, the FBI offered him sugar free cookies. He was diabetic as I recall and just wanted some cookies. The way the FBI explained it was that the Al Queda believe the US is evil. We will kill their children and rape their wives. Similar to the way the US seems to be rain washed about Muslims in general. The fact that someone gave this guy cookies pretty much shattered that idea. And he ended up talking.

Secondly, as I believe McCain pointed out before he flip-flopped to get elected, was that it is pretty hard to take the moral high road and complain about torture to your own troops when we our selves do it to other troops.

There is nothing to prove that the information obtained from torture would not have been obtained with out and there is nothing to prove that the US was not sent on countless wild goose chases due to false information being given out to avoid torture.
 
The other problem with enhanced interrogation is that it is not reliable and produces a plethora of false information. There was a article a while back written by or an interview (I cannot remember which) with a former FBI interrogator. He gave an example of one of their high value prisoners. He was a member of OBL's inner circle. Instead of torturing him, the FBI offered him sugar free cookies. He was diabetic as I recall and just wanted some cookies. The way the FBI explained it was that the Al Queda believe the US is evil. We will kill their children and rape their wives. Similar to the way the US seems to be rain washed about Muslims in general. The fact that someone gave this guy cookies pretty much shattered that idea. And he ended up talking.

Secondly, as I believe McCain pointed out before he flip-flopped to get elected, was that it is pretty hard to take the moral high road and complain about torture to your own troops when we our selves do it to other troops.

There is nothing to prove that the information obtained from torture would not have been obtained with out and there is nothing to prove that the US was not sent on countless wild goose chases due to false information being given out to avoid torture.

Love the liberal logic. Waterboarding isn't torture but seemed to work quite nicely in Osama case.
 
You are aware that the 9-11 gig was a go from somewhere in the mid nineties?

You are comapring apples and oranges. There's a big difference between having the desire to carry out an attack and having the actual capability. Once Al Queda had the capapbility to carry out the 9-11 attacks they did not wait very long to do it. Like I said before just sitting on a nuke risks discovery.
 
Something only aviation geeks seem to have noticed.

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/defense/index.jsp?plckController=Blog&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&newspaperUserId=27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7&plckPostId=Blog%3a27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7Post%3a275902dd-e7a2-40fd-ab78-d46e3bf922b1&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest
 
WH Carney: President said "we don't trott out this stuff out as trophies" on decision not to release OBL photo

CARNEY SAYS OBAMA SAYS U.S. WAS 95% SURE IT WAS BIN LADEN. LOL

The White House practically peed its pants with excitement over releasing torture memos, but refuses to release the Bin Laden photo? :blink:
 
Reminder to the WH, MSM, Libtards etc: Abu Ghraib photos inflamed the "Arab street" far more than any OBL pic would.
 
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