Pbgc Takes Over United Pilots' Pension Plan

[Busdrvr]

Well Bus, if the PBGC were to become insolvent....
Is it any different than United saying that it is no longer going to honor it's labor contracts?

I think we can all relate to the 'balance sheet' thing but when you take a big paycut and your management is suddenly hiring high dollar outside consultants, developing half assed business schemes, creating an entire new 'LCC', passing out free subway sandwiches, repainting and reconfiguring a fleet of aircraft and generally acting like they are just swimming in excess cash...

Somewhere along the line even you have to admit that they've lost all credibility. That's how most of us have come to feel. I mean, what is the point in making an agreement with these guys anyway? Have they done something to convince you that they would honor an agreement?

You could still vote NO, couldn't you?

[post="234032"][/post]​

I don't have a vote. But, I believe in fighting the winable fight. this isn't it. All of UAL's biggest competators are losing money head to head against us. ATA is BK in Chicago, and Indy is a gonner. FRNT hasn't made a profit in about a year, and trouble is brewing at AWA. the plan all along was to outlast UAL. If UAL emerges, the competative landscape in UAL's markets will change DRASTICALLY within 2 years. Frankly C2003 doesn't pay enough to keep me around, much less C2005, but I support doing whatever it takes to emerge, if for no other reason than to see Fish unemployed and to view his 300 lb tubetop clad, cigarette toking common law "wife" throw down with the sheriff on an episode of "Cops-Denver" when the the finance company comes to put the wheels back on his house and take it away. now THAT'S must see TV!!

 

[Retired1]

Bus, that broke me up. You are going to get as good as FLY.

 

[UAL_TECH]

This was pretty much my take on the subject. If terminating the pension before May puts the pilot's concession package at risk, I believe the judge will not allow it until then.

And by the way, UAL_Tech, ALPA did not "agree" to the termination of our plan. That is what the company wanted. But ALPA specifically worded it to say we would not fight the termination IF it was decided by the judge that termination was necessary.

[post="233909"][/post]​

767jetz,

see this: Statement of PBGC Executive Director Bradley Belt on Agreement Between UAL and ALPA

"We are concerned that this agreement sets a dangerous precedent. The company is making generous new pension promises even as it is refusing to honor its old pension promises. Equally troublesome is the notion that the pilots' union insists on the termination of the pension plans for other United employees. The company and the pilots' union have no authority to force other workers and the PBGC to accept the termination of those plans. We will be scrutinizing this agreement very closely and will take all appropriate steps to protect the financial interests of the pension insurance program."

Is it a little clearer now?

B) UT

 

[Falco]

This is a very interesting move by the PBGC. In it's release the PBGC said it believes only 3 of the 4 pension plans can be funded by United. What it has done is take over the one fund that employees have agreed to terminate, and will now align itself with the remaining employees in maintaining their pensions. I guess they are hoping for the ALPA deal to fall apart, and for the pilots to agree to further wage reductions to continue their pension plan, which is doable if the wage rate is low enough.

 

[ualdriver]

Falco-

Stick to stuff that you have even a meager understanding of.

 

[Fly]

than to see Fish unemployed and to view his 300 lb tubetop clad, cigarette toking common law "wife" throw down with the sheriff on an episode of "Cops-Denver" when the the finance company comes to put the wheels back on his house and take it away. now THAT'S must see TV!!

[post="234115"][/post]​

LMAOOOOOO

 

[Falco]

Falco-

Stick to stuff that you have even a meager understanding of.

[post="234251"][/post]​

What don't I understand?

 

[spacewaitress]

What you don't understand is driver's perspective. It's okay, he likes to deflect with insults.

 

[SmoothRide]

Is it possible that Judge Wedoff could see the PBGC's latest move as a unnecessary and unwanted intrusion in the collective bargaining process between the company and employees? Can a restraining order be slapped against them?

The mandate of the PBGC is to protect American worker pensions...earned AND deferred compensation...period! Despite Bradley Belt's public statement, there IS something more Machiavellian at work here.

 

[peasant]

Argh, just wrote long reply that was eaten.

Salient points:

- Isn't PBGC responsible for insuring all DB plans, not just UAL? Given that all sides have taken it as a given that pilots' DB is gone (just question if in a C11 restructure, or C7 shutdown) PBGC is probably justified in jumping the gun to save other American workers' money (an extra 140m USD in costs = higher premiums on other plans). Regardless of any side deals UA/ALPA have come up with.

Analogy. You own a house, which you rent out. You are way behind in your house payments, and your tenant is way behind on his rentals. You cut a deal with the tenant where he pays you a small portion of the arrears, forgiving the rest. Would you be shocked if the mortgage company started foreclosure proceedings anyway, rather than accepting the same deal you cut with the tenant?

- The judge may/may not have right to say no, on the basis that PBGC is trying to improve its creditor status vs other creditors outside C11 process? Remember, he is there to get get best deal for all creditors with the company.

- Looks like all this will hasten the end of private sector DB. Premiums must rise, and the PBGC must be looking to rewrite the law to avoid such moral hazards in the future (UAL

 

[Fly]

Bus, that broke me up. You are going to get as good as FLY.

[post="234123"][/post]​

Should I tell them what I saw you sucking on behind that screen name?

 

[Borescope]

I don't have a vote. But, I believe in fighting the winable fight. this isn't it. All of UAL's biggest competators are losing money head to head against us. ATA is BK in Chicago, and Indy is a gonner. FRNT hasn't made a profit in about a year, and trouble is brewing at AWA. the plan all along was to outlast UAL. If UAL emerges, the competative landscape in UAL's markets will change DRASTICALLY within 2 years. Frankly C2003 doesn't pay enough to keep me around, much less C2005, but I support doing whatever it takes to emerge, if for no other reason than to see Fish unemployed and to view his 300 lb tubetop clad, cigarette toking common law "wife" throw down with the sheriff on an episode of "Cops-Denver" when the the finance company comes to put the wheels back on his house and take it away. now THAT'S must see TV!!

[post="234115"][/post]​

Bus,
Even though I enjoyed some of Fish's posts, I LMAO at this, you da man!!!!!!!! I'll be setting up the TIVO for that episode of Cops.

 

[casual rat]

I don't have a vote. But, I believe in fighting the winable fight. this isn't it. All of UAL's biggest competators are losing money head to head against us. ATA is BK in Chicago, and Indy is a gonner. FRNT hasn't made a profit in about a year, and trouble is brewing at AWA. the plan all along was to outlast UAL. If UAL emerges, the competative landscape in UAL's markets will change DRASTICALLY within 2 years. Frankly C2003 doesn't pay enough to keep me around, much less C2005, but I support doing whatever it takes to emerge, if for no other reason than to see Fish unemployed and to view his 300 lb tubetop clad, cigarette toking common law "wife" throw down with the sheriff on an episode of "Cops-Denver" when the the finance company comes to put the wheels back on his house and take it away. now THAT'S must see TV!!

[post="234115"][/post]​

LMAO...or an episode of 'Springer-Denver' where his 300 lb. cigarette toking,common law wife gets into a 'cat fight' with his inflatable mistress....the wheels on the house 'visual' almost made my drink go through my nostrils....that was a good one!