Pension Issue

[UAL_TECH]

I just don't think this is the case. Nothing I have heard Tilton say, and nothing I have heard from my union indicates that they want to shrink to profitability. In fact Tilton believes just the opposite and wants to focus on our strengths. One of those strengths is our route structure and international presence. As an example, we are adding flights to the Pacific wherever we can. I've also read that we are taking in some overhaul work from other companies.

This doesn't sound like shrinking to profitability to me. Ofcourse we are being asked to be more productive and do more more with less. That trend is common throughout this entire country, regardless what industry you work in.

As far as pensions go, everyone needs to assess their own situation and become as informed as possible with their options and the status of their individual pensions. Union officials and attending meetings are probably the best source of accurate and timely information.

[post="163562"][/post]​

Here is an assement:

United pilots stand to lose big bucks

Nothing I have heard Tilton say

Yep, I thought that too.
Now what?

Union officials and attending meetings are probably the best source of accurate and timely information

Take Care,
B) UT

 

[The Ronin]

Almost makes you feel sorry for the poor bastards..... :unsure:

 

[WorldTraveler]

I'm not sure anyone should be gloating over the pension problems UA is facing since history is clear that all workers will suffer - even those outside of UA. UAL's story is a sad collection of mismanagement involving both strategy and employees but it is very sad to see one of the grand dames of aviation on her way down (and I am a United customer - love the service but not the strategy).

UA should realize that the steps they are taking will move United right down the road US is on now - with deep pay cuts and the loss of any financial incentive to keep United alive (pensions), UAL's future will be very dark indeed. Sadly, I cannot be optimistic and that is to the detriment of every UA employee and customer. As in every other dimension, the circle of life will go on once the dead are buried and the mourning comes to a close.

 

[Fly]

I'm not sure anyone should be gloating over the pension problems UA is facing since history is clear that all workers will suffer - even those outside of UA. UAL's story is a sad collection of mismanagement involving both strategy and employees but it is very sad to see one of the grand dames of aviation on her way down (and I am a United customer - love the service but not the strategy).

UA should realize that the steps they are taking will move United right down the road US is on now - with deep pay cuts and the loss of any financial incentive to keep United alive (pensions), UAL's future will be very dark indeed. Sadly, I cannot be optimistic and that is to the detriment of every UA employee and customer. As in every other dimension, the circle of life will go on once the dead are buried and the mourning comes to a close.

[post="171215"][/post]​

you aren't sad...admit it. You're wetting your pants with excitement. Of course, Delta is about to taste BK themselves (but you can't bring yourself to admit it yet). I wonder what type of spin you will put on that one.

 

[WorldTraveler]

No actually, Fly, I will be very surprised if Delta DOES end up in bankruptcy. You see, people do learn from mistakes and UA, among others, has provided plenty of them to learn from. You might remember that Delta has a much longer history of being financially well run than just about any other legacy airline. Thankfully, Delta is being run by people who understand the airline business and who are not there for their own personal benefit. If DL does fall into bankruptcy, it is an entirely different story but there is no stakeholder at DAL that doesn't know the extraordinary losses they will incur in bankruptcy.

 

[The Ronin]

No actually, Fly, I will be very surprised if Delta DOES end up in bankruptcy. You see, people do learn from mistakes and UA, among others, has provided plenty of them to learn from. You might remember that Delta has a much longer history of being financially well run than just about any other legacy airline. Thankfully, Delta is being run by people who understand the airline business and who are not there for their own personal benefit. If DL does fall into bankruptcy, it is an entirely different story but there is no stakeholder at DAL that doesn't know the extraordinary losses they will incur in bankruptcy.

[post="171600"][/post]​

You've got the #1 BK consulting firm ON YOUR PAYROLL right now...your ALPA 777 captains are pulling down #335k/yr and don't seem willing to budge (because I think they know they are going to BK so they are getting all they can get while they can....just like here) and oil is approaching $50 bbl. You've just announced MORE cutbacks and layoffs to "non-union" employees....everyone EXCEPT ALPA...and YOU'D BE SUPRISED"......HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAH.....too funny....and naive

 

[The Ronin]

You've got the #1 BK consulting firm ON YOUR PAYROLL right now...your ALPA 777 captains are pulling down #335k/yr and don't seem willing to budge (because I think they know they are going to BK so they are getting all they can get while they can....just like here) and oil is approaching $50 bbl. You've just announced MORE cutbacks and layoffs to "non-union" employees....everyone EXCEPT ALPA...and YOU'D BE SUPRISED"......HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAH.....too funny....and naive

[post="171620"][/post]​

http://money.cnn.com/2004/08/09/news/fortune500/delta.reut/

HAHAHAHAHAHAH......Nope, on second thought....I don't think its going to happen either....HAHAHAHAHAH.......ROFLMAO......Oh....wait a minute.......HAHAHAHAHAHAH.....just stop....YOU'RE KILLING ME.....

 

[novaqt]

White House is now involved in United pension issue. They are very concerned about the future outcome to the feds and the taxpayer. They apparently are looking at other options. See today's new releases.

 

[Borescope]

White House is now involved in United pension issue. They are very concerned about the future outcome to the feds and the taxpayer. They apparently are looking at other options. See today's new releases.

[post="173015"][/post]​

This is good for the rest of the industry, as it will probably save their pensions. Unfortunately it's not going to help UA.

 

[uafa21]

You can bet that the fed's don't want the taxpayers to bailout the airline industries pension plans. This issue could be a disaster for UA. If they allow UA to walk from pensions then other airlines will do the same. It would be the only way they could be on the same level.

On the other side though, if you look at our financial statement, it doesn't look good either. How is the company going to fund the pensions. The last few years we have lost billions of $$. Someone should have stopped the losses sooner to keep the balance sheet strong. What we have now is a deep hole to get out of. I don't know the answer and neither does present management.

 

[Fly]

The feds have no choice here. If they tell United NO.....then United can fold and guess what? The feds WILL pay anyway. Dubya didn't think about that when he allowed lobbying against the ATSB loan. Duh!

 

[uafa21]

Fly - The atsb loan was not enough to cover pension funding either. By the time the pensions were funded there would not be that much left. The problems is, if Ua is allowed to discontinue the pension funding then other airlines will follow. The fed's DO NOT want this. They will do everything they can to see that if Ua does away with pensions then Ua operates no more. What signal does that send to other airlines? This has turned into a catch 22 situation. Ua needs to work something out with the pensions or risk the alturnative.

 

[WorldTraveler]

The Feds would far rather take UAL's pension plans after UA is folded than take them as part of a restructuring and give the impression that they will take anybody's pension plan that just happens to no longer want one. Agree with UAFA21 that pension termination will be drawn out and will hinder UAL's ability to restructure.

 

[Cosmo]

The Feds would far rather take UAL's pension plans after UA is folded than take them as part of a restructuring and give the impression that they will take anybody's pension plan that just happens to no longer want one. Agree with UAFA21 that pension termination will be drawn out and will hinder UAL's ability to restructure.

WorldTraveler:

While "The Feds" in general, and the PBGC in particular, might want to make an example of United and thereby not set a precedent for other legacy carriers to follow, they are not in any position to do anything about it, especially since United is in Chapter 11 bankruptcy where virtually all of the power rests with the Judge. Indeed, if the PBGC had such power to compel action, they would have already forced United to make the $72 million pension payment that it missed in July.

Moreover, did the decision-makers at the ATSB (and especially those from the Federal Reserve and Treasury, supposedly savy in the ways of the financial world) simply not understand when they determined that United shouldn't receive a loan guarantee due to its presumed ability to access the credit market, that such access would almost certainly be predicated on, among other things, the elimination of its massive unfunded pension liability? Should United and its employees now be penalized for following the government's "suggestion"?

Perhaps "The Feds" (and you) need to be reminded that the PBGC exists to ensure that participants in defined-benefit pension plans receive at least some minimal pension payment, not that they be thrown out of work by the tens of thousands! IMHO, I believe that the Judge will make sure that the PBGC understands this pretty basic concept.

 

[Fly]

I love him!!!!!!!!!! He always says it so nicely. :wub: