Pension Restoration Funding


May 18, 2003
Dear Fellow Employee:

As many of you know, for a number of reasons, I believe now is an important time for each of us to increase our efforts to lobby members of Congress to support H.R. 2719, to provide legislative relief to restore our Defined Benefit retirement plan.

Some of our colleagues, in a private quest, have been tirelessly exhorting pilots and other employees to visit their Senators and Congressmen to discuss the importance of pension restoration funding. The feedback has been nothing short of phenomenal -- with no negatives. None what so ever. Most pilots have reported that their Congressmen/women have appreciated the time and effort spent in (1) bringing them up-to-speed on H.R. 2719 and (2) the number of constituents who are eager for the bill to be passed into law. The response to ALPA's call-to-arms has not fallen on deaf ears. Considering that plan restoration means the difference between having to work well into their seventies to make ends meet and to keep up with inflation, the stakes are high for retirees, widows, and active employees alike.

Time is short before the end of congressional summer recess, however, now is the time to increase our lobby efforts before Congress returns to Washington shortly after Labor Day.

Key contacts are reasonably upbeat about the proposed legislation, which now has bi-partisan support and there is the possibility we can obtain more co-sponsors when congress returns to Capital Hill. The specific score for the bill is not yet available, but will be in a few weeks at (use the search feature and put the number of the bill into the window).

Finally, legislative pension funding is important for all of us because it will provide a reasonable retirement lifestyle, reduce PBGC stress and potential insolvency, and reduce the company’s current pension obligations (that will lower airline unit costs), which will help US Airways not only survive, but also eventually thrive.

Therefore, I strongly encourage all employees to contact your congressional representatives and ask them to support H.R. 2719.

Best regards,


For the rest of the "defined pensions" on the property AFA and IAM, our pensions would have to have fallen below 80% as of Jan 1 2003. AFA pension was funded at 83%. AFA will not be signing on to have our pensions included in this bill, as there is no need for us at this time. We had our own pension specialists look closely at this bill and our funding and U obligation to meet that funding going forward. The greater problem here for the defined pension plans and retirees is UAL pension liability which is huge across the board. I am sure the PBGC is we ll aware of the problem and has great concern.

I am not sure where IAM sits on this issue and can not speak to whether they had their people look into this for there own pensions.

Although I truly am hopful for the pilots to have this bill pass, it is not a good thing for AFA to lump ours in with yours and have the payments stretched over 25 to 35 years and travel underfunded. God forbid IAM or AFA join in when they didn't have to and have our pensions terminated as an example, in 2016. I would rather have the PBGC guidlines at 2016 then be part of this "bill" and have the PBGChave to default to a piece of legislation that has the payout of the pension follow the pension payment guidlines of 2004 as a consequence to the conditions set in the "bill".

See the point here?
My understanding of the pending legislation is that any airline pension fund that is below 80% would be included and any plan over 80% funding is excluded. The first 5 years the fund would be categorized as 90% of funding and no additional deposits would be required. The next 5 years only the interest deposits would be required. The next 15 years the company would be required to make the plan whole. In other words the company would have 25 years to fund the retirement plans. Additionally, this bill includes language that at any time during this period the plan terminates the employees seniority for benefits would be capped at 2004. So, for arguments sake, if you have 15 years seniority in 2004 and in 2014 (25 years seniority) the plan terminates your pension would be based on 15 years seniority. ALPA has nothing to lose, however it is a roll of the dice for the IAM & AFA whether to support the legislation or not.

In the words of Dirty Harry as he held a gun to a man's head "How lucky do you feel?"
PineyBob said:
LOL, like the IAM has made all the astute moves! AMFA wins at UA! IAM folds like a cheap suit. If I was undecided on ANY issue I would look at the IAM's position and do the opposite.
Wow, looks like Bob's Super hero Underoos are in a wad today.

Or maybe, its LavMan's.........

The pension plans of the members with a "defined pension" has nothing to do with IAM and AFA leaders. Folks need to protect their defined pensions with the same fervor the pilots did. To say that members need to do the opposite of what IAM says, just because the IAM members are so frustrated with where they sit now with their leadreship, is not a reason NOT to focus on their pensions, and protect them. I believe your satements are a bit personal Bob. I remeber you saying on these boards that a defined pension, was not as important as a person's ability to control their own retirement investment e.g., 401K. That if given a choice, you would choose a matching 401K with your employer. You can see on these boards how very important pension plans are to the worker who has been with the same corporation over longevity. It appears to me Bob, that you always seem to side with your perception of who the "winner " is and who holds the power. That's where I see you often times place your support on these boards.

Just my humble opinion.
AFA and IAM are funded so well because the pilots fund was taken to cover those!
I understand how things work which is why I have learned the Allegheny/USAir way over the last 13 years- I am out for myself.
320, you know that is a complete lie and falsehood, no IAM or AFA member got over a $1,000,000 Lump Sum Payment upon retirement.

The CWA aka Customer Service employees have no pension, the IAM Fleet Service just got into the IAM pension plan.

If you can prove that the IAM or AFA pension plans took ALPAs pension then I will eat crow, but you know that is a blantant lie.

So what did the rest of the labor groups concessions buy? Nothing?

With those kinds of statments you make, it is very hard to rally support for alpa on anything. Your version of what you gave and saved is disappointing and "warped" at best. Your pariety increases between 2001 and 2002, put your pension over the damn and at the same time, the stock market was starting to tank. Not your fault, but none the less true blue. I understand your frustration, but focus on this new management that was less than genuine with allowing you to believe you were saving your defined plans.

And if you can't buy into what I am saying...look over yonder at United pension liability who got the biggest wage increases in the Industry during 1999 through 2001 and subsequently upset the whold balance with the Pilot pension funds. Mangement who gave those increases to United are the exact folks to blame.
AFA pension is funded, because the liability is incidental to the company. Why? Cause we make diddly squat and get raises almost never.
PineyBob said:
[Then I get this drunk woman with a skirt that is way to short to begin with. And given her condition let's just say that it was a "modesty Optional" flight. Plus she wanted to talk even though she really couldn't. So sorry for the short tone these last few days.
Why can't I ever get on flights like this???????????? :up: :up:

This is classic. We have people post these threads about needing a labor coalition. Then we see our resident AFA and IAM people here really coming to rally support for this pension bill. I will give PITBull this, you are much more professional about not supporting this bill than our good friend LavMan.


If the IAM gets to the point where the Airbus work is considered a major dispute, and the IAM wishes to walk, you won't see the pilots support that strike with such statements as saying something like "That is a complete lie and you know it." You may not agree, and A320 may be completely wrong, I have no idea. My point is there is a much more constructive way to hold a discussion than blowing your top everytime someone says something you don't agree with.

Wow, thanks for giving AFA credit. But really, the liability is not much for U. WE don't make that much.

With regard to your Reserve f/as you spoke to. It is impossible at her pay rate working 20 hours of Flight time per week to make $55,000 per year. IMPOSSIBLE. Unless she is stealing time from others and flying over her option consistently. And I mean grossly so. If she is based in PHL, I might know her or of her. I watch the "overfly" sheet system wide and thanks for the heads up.

Her pay rate is approx$34 presently per hour . On a 20 hour work week (cause that is the big end of what we normally work) working 85 hours a month max give or take a couple of hours. Is approx $2,890 per month gross pay x 12 = figure it out. $34,680. So let's say $35,000 gross. That is a far cry from $55,000. I have the pay scales in front of me.

No. There is an exaggeration here. And I don't know why she would do this. Unless it is a misperceived.
And if she is in another base besides PHL where there is NOT plenty of flying time for reserves at all like PIT, she may have only got her reserve guarantee, which is what is happening in PIT the last year every month. So firgure that out at a guarantee of only 71 hours. Period.

Keep in mind we live out of a suit case and expenses are high.

Can't elaborate on the Reserve system yet. I am not at liberty to do so. I can tell you that it is "slavery". Just what the PIT President wrote in the Winter concession correspondence to the members. Nothing short of that. We are just trying to ensure that U doesn't get away with taking more cost savings then what was ratified by the members.

I won't take anything personally, even though sometime ago, you said we "parted company". I wanted to cry. In retrospect, I know you didn't mean it in that light.

We are both "Veterans" of these boards. Its me and you baby....all the way.
Perhaps this F/A has another career or job on the side as some Blockholders (not on reserve, has a set schedule) do. A mainline flight attendant brings home between 19-24k a year in thier first few years, making $20-$25 per flight hour. Comparitively, an Express (including MidAtlantic) flight attendant only makes between 12-16k a year, at $12-$18, depending on the carrier. Again these are pretty rough numbers, just thought you might find them interesting. These are by no means well-paying positions. As for the 8 year flight attendant, even international, her annual pay would not be that high. Maybe shes not paying taxes and is selling homemade food on board?
Sorry to hear about your head- you really are a true loyal customer- takes a beating and keeps coming back! Thanks again! :D

There is no such thing of an 8 year f/a in CLT who is on International and is a "block holder". She has to be reserve.

She does not hold that kind of senority.