Pension Restoration Funding

[PITbull]

Bob,
I have already figured it out. Not complex, we all live it. She is a reserve no matter what base she is in if she is International.

Don't rack your brain over it LOL....she makes enough money to feed herself and pay for a car, and room with about 3 other people. And if she is a commuter to CLT and lives in Orlando, she is definitely living in a commuter pad with multiple folks, and has to shell out money for that end too. Trust me. Unless she's married or something along that line where someone else contributes to her existence.

And, we just got back the 5%, so her situation was even worse these past few months, which I didn't integrate into her hourly rate.

PS: FYI, even though we are away for approx 4 days per week, our work week, on the high end is 20 hours of flight time. In short version, even though I am away from my home and base approx 95 hours per week, I only get paid approx. 20 hours of the Flight Pay. We only get paid when we are in the air. The service we provide on the ground IS WITHOUT PAY BUT WE ARE STILL ON DUTY TIME.

 

[xoxo]

PineyBob, Did you say that the f/a was on reserve and international in Clt? Hmmmmmmmm, our international at USAIRWAYS is London, Frankfurt, Rome, (Europe) the last time I checked. Yes Toronto is in Canada, but, our international is not considered Canada (technically). So, she had to be lying....or just stretching the truth a little bit. I wish we made $55,000 as a 8 year f/a....

 

[USA320Pilot]

PineyBob:

Thank you for offering to send a letter to your Congressional delegation supporting the Airline Pension Act.

Here's a sample letter you can use:

Pilot friend/acquaintance sample letter to United States Representatives and Senators:

As a friend of a US Airways pilot and your voting constituent, I am writing to urge your support for H.R. 2719, The Air Line Pension Act of 2003. This bill provides a temporary special funding rule for passenger airlines that would help protect airline workers’ pension plans, while maintaining a viable airline industry without using taxpayer money to solve the problem.

As you may know, defined benefit plans, particularly in the airline industry, are facing a severe pension-funding crisis. This already has resulted in US Airways terminating its pilots’ defined benefit plan, raising fears that plans at other airlines are soon to follow. The crisis is not the result of employers failing to fund their pension plans. Rather it was created by historically low interest rates, three consecutive years of stock market declines and unprecedented losses in the airline industry. These losses resulted from the terror attacks of 9/11, the threat of future attacks, high oil prices, the war in Iraq and the recent outbreak of SARS.

H.R. 2719 will allow cash-strapped airlines to use their limited resources to remain in business without having to terminate their defined benefit plans. In addition, the bill would restore the defined benefit plan of the US Airways pilots, which was terminated earlier this year.

I urge you to co-sponsor H.R. 2719, urge your colleagues to support it, and work for its speedy passage. I look forward to hearing from you about your position on this critical legislation.

Best regards,

Chip

 

[TomBascom]

PS: FYI, even though we are away for approx 4 days per week, our work week, on the high end is 20 hours of flight time. In short version, even though I am away from my home and base approx 95 hours per week, I only get paid approx. 20 hours of the Flight Pay. We only get paid when we are in the air. The service we provide on the ground IS WITHOUT PAY BUT WE ARE STILL ON DUTY TIME.

Interesting.

My work weeks look a lot like that -- a typical "3 day trip" goes something like leave Monday afternoon, arrive at client site Tuesday am, work Tu, We & Th, head home Thursday night. I generally get paid for 24 hours of work (even if I'm working on the plane, in the airport or in the hotel room) but I'm away from home at least 80 to 90 hours. I get to carry a cell phone or a pager 24x7x365 (to say nothing of e-mail) and I'm expected to respond immediately to any issues that pop up...

 

[PITbull]

Bob,

I am not saying that Senior Execs or CEOs should not be handsomly compensated for a job well done. Working to gether with labor and succeeding together is an "art" and all should be compensated, not at the same level, but compensated fairly.

That will not happen for most of the employees at you. Doesn't matter how much profit this co. makes, the employees are "capped". So in that respect, morale stays low, folks struggle, and those who make the rules get ALL the gold.

 

[MarkMyWords]

PitBull -

What about all of the perdiums and items added to the f/a's hourly wages? I personally know many cabin crew members that are around the 14-16 year mark and their TOTAL wages are in excess of 50K. Granted an 8 year f/a may not be in the same pay rate, there are still plenty of f/a's that are making over 50K TOTAL compensation.

Let me just add an example of some of the "suffering" that I have witnessed from some of your peers. I know 5 couples that both spouses work for US as f/a's. All were based out of PIT but recently moved to PHL in order to maintain blockholder status and several are on international. Couple number one is having a new townhouse built in a trendy area of PHL at a total cost of $350,000.00. Yes, there was about $80,000.00 made off the sale of their home in PIT, but to still have a mortgage of $270,000.00 is freightening to me. Couple number 2, bought and remodeled a home in a neighborhood in DE, price tag on the home BEFORE renovations? $335,000.00. Couple number 3 and 4 recently purchased homes in the same neighborhood in DE, with home prices exceeding $300,000.00. Couple number 5 recently purchased a home near the beach, price tag - unknown.

While I do agree that some of the f/a's that may be at the lower end of the scale are suffering, I would say that some of the people at the top end of the scale have done very well for themselves. Let me give you one more example of another couple that lived near me here in PIT. $287,000.00 home in a Moon Twp neighborhood with a BMW and a Volvo in the garage. Both are f/a's and they have 3 small children. All three children attend "private" schools, not public. So as you can see, it is hard to have the same vision as you do about these poor, starving, sick, emaciated, overworked and under appreciated f/a's as you paint in the picture. From these 12 cabin crew members I was able to mix and mingle with many more and know the income levels (as well as the abuses to sick time) and I can tell you that not a one of them is on food stamps or has missed a meal yet. And not a one of them would hesitate to call in sick tomorrow if there was a party, a sunny day or a sale at Kaufmann's - sick penalty or not.

While I realize they may be the exception and not the rule, it is hard to see the picture you are trying to paint all the time.

 

[PITbull]

Mark,

I have too much respect for you to say you are exaggerating at best.

Let's take me for example shall we....Some day I may tell you who I am so you can check on my income with the company. Or just just for FYI that I am credible when I speak.

I am a single parent for a good many years. I am a 22 year flight attendant domestic on 105 option receiving senior pay some of the time because it is very difficult to hold senior on every trip, half night half day. For me there is no other premium on domestic and I am max out on the scale; top f/a in years, top pay scale which is only permissible for 10% of the f/a population at maximum permitted on this option system wide.

Last year 2002 with the FIRST 6 month at NO CUT IN PAY and the second with the 8.4% in just a wage hit (not including medical) I made with USAirways approx 55,000.

This year including 4 months of the 5% deferral and the FULL year of the 8.4% wage reduction, I will make approx 48,500 again not counting the medical w-2 hit or pension hit from reduced wages as well as less to contribute in a 401K (you know there is no match what so ever, never was). Now I am not counting vacation hits, or work rule hits, less LTD benefit or OIJ, or sick pay penalities for any sick occurences in any given month that will reduce my wage and yearly bottom line. I am betting and REFUSE to get sick at all for the next 5 years cause I am planning to work no matter what as long as I can walk, and see.

Keep in mind, I am on the high, high end of the profession, and don't have to commute as many of my single counter parts so I don't endure those expenses to my bottom line.

I had to sell my house last year in Mt. Lebanon, as my property taxes soared to 5,200 yearly and with the pending concessions, I put it up for sale. In additon to my "safety net" my 401K USAirways stock got obleiterated through BK. I have a daughter in Penn State in which I contribute to the "parent end" of the financial aid peice. Thankfully, she is finishing her last year and I have to get through to next May. I have a son I support with $150 monthly child support from EX.

Now I probably gave you too much information about my person, BUT, I bought a 3 bedroom townhouse, and I could only get approval through a bank financing $140,000 in which I put a down payment to qualify for this that thankfully was substantial , because of the wage I had made in the past and the proceeds from the sale of my home. I also work as a Nurse for a physician I have been with for a long time doing historys and physicals on weekends which helps boost my income and he has been on the generous side. I am unique here though because I have two degrees I have earned, and one while I was flying through my early years. Most f/as don't have nurisng backgrouds, but many can supplement their incomes with other trades and skills, However, while on a reserve schedule, which I AM NOT AND SOME HAVE BEEN ON FOR A DECADE AND A HALF, they can not supplement their incomes because of the "reserve" on call schedule. So they are handicapped to make more income. And with the NEW RESERVE SYSTEM that will be slavery, it will be literally impossible to make their full option for many let alone another job. However, they will be on call no matter if they fly or not and have to be in base no matter where they live in the country.

So, I am not sure what f/as are buying houses at way over $300,000 or a bank that gives f/a that kind of financing with our precarious situation. God Bless them but the banks must be desperate for loans to qualify on our kinds of income. Many f/as I know have gone into Bankruptcy already or are teetering as they never expected such conssesions and I am sure the banks are kicking themselves all over their bosses offices, or maybe the boss is doing the kicking.
Now we can argue all day my profession and what some may think its worth and others may think less. That will be for another thread, rest assured.

I get the disappointing feeling that you may think f/as don't deserve to make a respectable wage in this country. You may find that the job has no real risk today maybe? Or that the customer service we provide for repeat customer business that effects a company's bottom line, is not worth its weight in gold and that a CEO that never served anything to a passenger, is worth millions and millions?

What I look for from any job in America is a respectable wage for my contribution of longevity to the company's bottom line that succeeds. And as you know, unions always step up to the plate when asked to give by company's who have made poor decisions in business and do not profit.

I paint the picture I do because by your own words above, it is the "exception rather the the rule" for some of the f/a that make it. And when I speak, I have enough empathy for my peers to take myself out of the equation as not the "gage" because I have two types of educations which gives me more earning power.

PS: With the Scenerio you gave me with the couple who have a $287,000 home with Volvos and BMers in their garage and tuition payments for private schools for three children, both on our wage scale JUST DOESN'T CALULATE. Unless they have very wealthy families, hit the lottery at one point in their existence OR they are running numbers or drug selling money.


I would call the cops.

 

[PITbull]

Mark,

When I read the post I placed, I implied I financed $140,000. That is incorrect.

That was the purchase price.

 

[MarkMyWords]

PitBull,

Thank you so much for the look into your life. you and I are in very similar circumstances in many ways. Our income levels have reached their full potential where we are now in our careers here at US. We make a respectable wage and live our lives comfortably. Yes, there are weeks that it is tougher to make ends meet then others and like most Americans, I live pay check to pay check and hope to continue that way. I fully sympathize with you and the issue of your house, as I did the exact same thing.

I can assure you that the above examples that I gave you are anything but and exaggeration. I always questioned how f/a's make around 50K a year could afford such things. Alas some people are better at budgeting better then others. I really used the above examples to show a couple of things. First off, you and I knew what was coming down the pike over a year ago and being the wise people we are we elected to get our house in order. We knew that the company was not doing well, and we began to plan for the future with or without US. Then there are those like the above mentioned. Life in PIT was getting tough and they opted to plan for the future by moving to PHL. Wise choice on their part. But upon arrival in PHL they still chose to try and live a life that pushed them to the limit of their means. Why would you purchase a $300.000. + home when your company is in bankruptcy? I think you and I have much better sense then to do that, but some people don't. I don't want to make light of anyones financial circumstances and I realize that everyone has their hardships. But there are some people out there that failed to plan for these types of events. They didn't take the many months before we filed for bankruptcy or after to get their financial house in order and now they are paying the price. A 40K-50K a year job is a LIVEABLE wage! Many times when you talk about the plight of other f/a's you do tend to over dramatize a bit. Sometimes you have to sit back and wonder if the people that are filing bankruptcies, losing thier houses and having to come to work sick all the time, if they aren't just living beyond their means. Again, I am not making fun or belittling anyones personal financial problems.

Lastly there are a couple of other points that I wanted to comment on from your posting:

I personally know many people that are/were on the reserve system for the last 10 years or so. Finally to get a taste of holding a block and then having it torn away from them. It is very unfortunate and very few of the senior people even give that a second thought. But I would say, at least they still have a job. There are to many f/a's that are out of work right now and would give anything to even be on reserve. Be thankful for what you have.

Your comments on the reserve system I can not comment on because I have not been made aware of what the changes are. But the comment about many having to be in base when they are on call no matter where they live in the country, I say boo hoo. As a f/a or pilot you make a choice of where you want to live. Commuting is your option and please do not look to anyone for sympathy if you have to be in base when you are on call. You as an employee put yourself in that position of having to get a commuter crash pad and living out of base. If it becomes to much for you, move back. I have zero sympathy or tolerance for anyone that commutes or is unable to commute to their job.

Your comment about my feelings about what a f/a is paid is way off base. I believe the inflight department is more then instrumental in providing customer service. Each and everyone is worth their weight in gold. They are the ones that leave the most lasting impression on the customer and take a bad situation and turn it around. All that and then there is the safety issue too. Knowing that they are there to assist in any incident that comes up is reassuring to me. If I had a heart attack, I know they would be there to save my life. If we had an accident, I know they would do everything possible to ensure the safety and well being of every person on that airplane. all that being said, I do not begrudge any of you one dime of the money that you earn. My personal feelings are that all airlines start f/a's way below what they should be making, but they do top you out and a very comfortable level when you hit the higher ends of the scale.

PitBull, I do agree with you that every employee deserves to make a liveable wage. We all deserve to live comfortably. But those people should also live responsibly and within their means. The trouble is defining a liveable wage. You and I may not agree on what is liveable.

 

[MarkMyWords]

Understand about the financiing part. Just as the couple mentioned above did not finance the entire purchase price, but do hold mortgages between 250,000 and 275,000. I wish I had a money printing machine too!

PS (Not sure how we got so far off topic here. LOL :blink: )

 

[PITbull]

I am sure we do not have the same definition of what a respectable wage means.

I have been single for most of my adult life, and have chosen to SURVIVE at all cost for the sake of my children. Iam an ambitious person and therefore driven. But, I do not expect the general population of people around me to think and behave and act and pursue as I do. I told you and Cluebyfour, I have a heart of "I am my brothers keeper". I know as sure as I am sitting here that I could and will never judge those who did not see or anticipate these events that have ensued. Remember, I had a "front row seat" with all these concessions and I saw how and by what methods it all went down for Labor. WE have been busted by these mighty 9 new folks who came on board here over a year ago. And I was one of the only folks that saw it that early. Knew Jerry G. from inside and out the moment I looked in his eyes; the window to the soul. Dave had me fooled for awhile I must admit, as I listened to his words, not his eyes. but not Jerry.

You are mangement. I will never convince you or attempt to sway your thought process about the many employees plight who literally suffer with not only huge concessions, but illness, and depression whether with themselves or a family member with high medical expenses and prescriptions all on severe wage concessions. Or for those who happen to be single parents who are not topped out in the scale or do not have the seniority to hold 105 hr option. For many, there is no room in our lives to make any mistakes for the next 5 years. Can't afford to be in a car accident, or to go through any personal letigation, or some huge sickness that makes you miss any work. You will surely perish financially.

I am sorry Mark, I am not or never will be contented to "live to fight another day". For many here at U, today is that day, because tomorrow, they maybe gone. We bear witness to what occurs every day with this management and our contracts. There is no rest or peace. We have to remain vigilant and not let one piece of language be stolen or ignored. Not one.

"Acceptance breeds complacency". For Some senior executives who have literally "beaten down" their employees are hoping for "submission".

I on the other hand have more energy than most people out there. If you knew my life, you would be amazed at what I can accomplish in one day. I live my life like tomorrow is not coming. And today is all there is.

I look to challenge the "status quo", by challenging myself to push for CHANGE in all aspects of life. Anyone who knows me or of me, knows this all too well.

PS: When you speak of employees who need to live responsibly you have to transfer that to all Americans...rich and less. Americans have always lived beyond there means because of "credit". This alone has increased our standards of living.

How "fragile" we are, with a down turn in the economy and look, this year alone has 1.6 Billion more personal bankruptcy than last year. Wonder how many of them are U employees. I am keeping a record of those who tell me. I may use it one day along with reported cases of depression since the onset of these concessions. And you surely know ANXIETY still remains high .

 

[MarkMyWords]

PitBull -

I am not asking you to lay down your sword and live to fight another day. I do understand the plight of many employee groups when it comes the the issues of contracts and how the company seems to walk through each clause like it is made of wet toilet paper. I wish I understood what was going on. To me it seems the company is headed for a major employee showdown and fast. Between the AFA and the reserve and vol furlough clauses, the IAM and the S check, the Pilots and the pension and the CWA and IAM with being expressed, there is a major blow up just around the corner.

Let me ask you this.....you are Dave and you have pushed every unionized employee group to the brink.......what are you planning to do when it all snaps? If the mechanics walk out because of the S check issue, how long would it take to contract all that work out and keep the airline flying? As checks come due on the Boeings and AB could they go fishing in the sands out west and pull planes back in while looking for contractors to do the work? Would contract MTC in all the other stations be able to provide line mtc work, thus eliminating the MTC department due to their job action? Again this is far fetched, but what is he really trying to do? I really wonder and wish I had an answer.

And again, I realize that the concession caused a lot of pain to all employees, I do not want to make light of that at all. I guess we will ahve to agree to disagree about what is a liveable wage and how people chose to live their lives. I stll maintain that the wages MOST of the f/a's make are liveable and if anyone is having a tough time making ends meet, then it is more because they have chosen th live their lives beyond their means. Those that have been furloughed are in much more dire straights financially then someone that still has a job here. Again, my opinion and not meant to make light of anyones financial situation.

 

[PITbull]

Mark,

Your position understood
My guard is up. If the mechanics and related walk, the fl/a WILL NOT CLEAN PLANES OTHER THAN WHAT IS IN OUR CONTRACTS. We will stand with them, behind them, in front of them and beside them. Promise!

I've had it Mark. I do not ask management to be reasonable as it is beyond their capability and grasp. On their way up the ladder, their focus is their own greed. And it is blatant that they are not here to operate an airline, my fear is mrplanes may be right, they only want it to survive until some other kind of transaction takes place. No one can explain why mangement is violating everyones agreement and racking up the grievances.

No corporation survives with this kind of employee disregard. There is no long term here. We've lost 20,000 jobs and counting. Ask me if I feel fortunate that I am still here while my junior counterpart is gone? If you can answer that question then you will understand why I take this stand and protect our contracts. "OUT" managagment by every means I am able to get help from any entity that is able to help the employees here at U, and will not rest until there is peace for all of us. Whether it means we, hopefully survive, or not.


STill waiting for Dave and team to take their focus off of cost savings and join the employees to operate this airline.

 

[MarkMyWords]

I can understand your guard being up, and I do respect the fight that you put up for your co-workers. That is very commendable. As for Dave and Co redirecting their focus to running an airline from cost savings mode, I would agree IF we wer making money. The cost side still needs to be addressed because we aren't there yet. How we market the airline and the fares we charge are the first points of order. We can not maintain this fare structure any longer. But the cost of doing business needs to be addressed also. There are no easy answer here any more. We still have a very tough road ahead.

 

[PITbull]

Good night.