Pilot Pension - Where we go from here...

[MrAeroMan]

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On 1/27/2003 9:55:14 PM CaptChill wrote:

MrA... The key phrase is "pay and benefits" not just pay... So can we have a definition of benefits???... Your guess is as good as mine... Do you think that some/many of these benefits were enjoyed by the other employee groups... So to say that the "average pilot" was earning $300k per year I still believe to be inaccurate...

To further say that numbers can be skewed anyway is 100% accurate... that's precisely why the pilot group has such a beef with management... Number-crunchers and financial analysts can produce whatever results they're looking for... a la Enron, Worldcom... and the likes...
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[/blockquote]
CaptChill...I believe I stated it was pay and benefits in the numbers I quoted and while it's hard to believe they are numbers from the ALPA union. How can they be inaccurate if they were presented to a United States Senate Committee?
Skewing numbers for ones personal benefit is nothing new to any group and ALPA is one of many groups that can skew the numbers with the best of them. Like with most issues I listen to both sides and figure the truth lies somewhere in the middle. I do not believe U's management stooped to the level of Enron, Worldcom or Global Crossing however I do believe Mssrs. Wolf and Gangwall should be prosecuted for shirking their fiduciary responsibilities to the company, shareholders and employees. That said I also believe ALPA has made some decisions that leave the coat of greed firmly wrapped around them. This time it has burned them but with 20% of the restructured company going to the pilots you have to agree you stand a pretty good chance of reaping a huge financial reward. That reward is because you gave up the most, no one is saying you didn't but your returns on that giveback are potentially enormous.

 

[A320 Driver]

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On 1/27/2003 11:02:45 PM FlyingHippie wrote:

Chip what has ALPA done for the group? The guys in charge have proven time and again that senority rules. forget the junior pilots. The band o brothers in charge have brought us

1.) B-Scale again let the juniors pay
2.) Sacrifice 15 year pilots to save a pension
3.) no support for downgraded pilots

the current ALPA leadership has proven gravely inept. While i admire their dedication at keeping their paychecks rolling in they have not looked back on all the casualties of their bad decisions.
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I'd say the 8% W2 paycut we just took effective January 1 is a pretty good sacrifice for the good of the junior pilots. The company just wanted work rule changes, but ALPA gave them another 8% in pay to save jobs...jobs at the BOTTOM of the list.

A320 Driver

 

[PITbull]

[blockquote]
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On 1/27/2003 9:55:14 PM CaptChill wrote:

MrA... The key phrase is "pay and benefits" not just pay... So can we have a definition of benefits???... Your guess is as good as mine... Do you think that some/many of these benefits were enjoyed by the other employee groups... So to say that the "average pilot" was earning $300k per year I still believe to be inaccurate...

To further say that numbers can be skewed anyway is 100% accurate... that's precisely why the pilot group has such a beef with management... Number-crunchers and financial analysts can produce whatever results they're looking for... a la Enron, Worldcom... and the likes...

People within the pilot group have been asking for these numbers for weeks on end from management for an independent unbiased analysis... Has this been received to date?... not to my knowledge... but I'm not an insider...
just a working stiff... that has been skewered, and fried... and totally distrustful and disgusted with this "management".
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I was told by a PHL pilot that the average "Captain" domestically with the pariety increases made approx. $270,000 year, however, it was very short lived. However, I do not kow how factual he was, but I don't suspect he would exagerate purposly.

 

[A320 Driver]

Nobody but the 100 or so A330 Captains made anywhere near that. I don't know where he got his numbers from, but if he was correct, somebody got to my paycheck before I did!

A320 Driver

 

[ONTHESTREET]

I was told by a PHL pilot that the average "Captain" domestically with the pariety increases made approx. $270,000 year, however, it was very short lived. However, I do not kow how factual he was, but I don't suspect he would exagerate purposly.

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There has been way too much reliance put on numbers published in the newsmedia as it pertains to pilot pay.

This is fact: I know a gentleman that retired two years ago, (A very close relative) He had 34 years in with the company, Was in the top 20 numbers of the sen list at the time of his retirement, was Captian on the 767 international, (The highest paying position on the pilot list, prior to the 330 coming on line) and his last year he made $205,000.

Had he been able to fly the 330 when it came on line this would have been more, and this is prior to the parity increase, BUT, at the time the newsmedia was still reporting that he made $300,000. I do not know where they get these numbers from, but I would suspect they factor in all sorts of "Bennies" and report it as cash.

Another fact: My last year at the airline (Metrojet) I made $61,000.(Before taxes) Had I been flying a blue paintjob I would have made about $83,000. And this DOES include the first parity raise.

The funny part is a week after I was furloughed, our illustrious newsmedia reported that I (the furloughees) made an average of $150,000. Boy I sure wish I knew where my other $89,000 is, I could sure use it now!!!

While I know this is more than a ramper makes it is still a far cry from the numbers we get bombarded with from various "Sources".

The company loves to keep the work groups divided and bickering among themselves.....It makes their job much easier. They can appear to be "Doing" something about cost and it hides the fact that apparantly they have no idea how to run an airline.

Until we fix the revenue problem we will never see an end to this mess! And contrary to what mgmt. would have you beleive, NO employee group has ANY control over that. That responsibility falls squarely on Dave and his management team!