Pilot Recall
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United Airlines Recalls 150 Pilots
Associated Press
ELK GROVE VILLAGE, Ill. - United Airlines announced the recall of 150 pilots Wednesday to cover its flying schedule for the rest of the year, citing the need to offset anticipated pilot retirements.
The nation's No. 2 airline, a unit of UAL Corp., said it expects to recall 75 pilots in the spring and another 75 later in the year.
Steve Forte, senior vice president of flight operations, said the recall will allow United to keep up a strong on-time performance.
The Department of Transportation said last week that United had the sixth-best on-time record among U.S. carriers in 2004 but was tops among the so-called legacy carriers in punctuality, with a better-than-average 79.7 percent of its flights on time. The top five were Hawaiian Airlines, SkyWest Airlines, JetBlue Airways, Southwest Airlines and ATA Airlines.
United has about 6,400 active pilots among 60,200 employees. Currently there are 2,133 who were furloughed by the company, according to the Air Line Pilots Association.
"Obviously we're thrilled at the prospect of pilots who we flew with previously being back with us again," said ALPA spokesman Steve Derebey.
Associated Press
ELK GROVE VILLAGE, Ill. - United Airlines announced the recall of 150 pilots Wednesday to cover its flying schedule for the rest of the year, citing the need to offset anticipated pilot retirements.
The nation's No. 2 airline, a unit of UAL Corp., said it expects to recall 75 pilots in the spring and another 75 later in the year.
Steve Forte, senior vice president of flight operations, said the recall will allow United to keep up a strong on-time performance.
The Department of Transportation said last week that United had the sixth-best on-time record among U.S. carriers in 2004 but was tops among the so-called legacy carriers in punctuality, with a better-than-average 79.7 percent of its flights on time. The top five were Hawaiian Airlines, SkyWest Airlines, JetBlue Airways, Southwest Airlines and ATA Airlines.
United has about 6,400 active pilots among 60,200 employees. Currently there are 2,133 who were furloughed by the company, according to the Air Line Pilots Association.
"Obviously we're thrilled at the prospect of pilots who we flew with previously being back with us again," said ALPA spokesman Steve Derebey.
whaledriver
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DON'T SET YOUR HOPES TO HIGH...IF ALPA HAS IT'S WAY 'AGE 60' WILL BE A THING OF THE PAST. APPARENTLY IT IS NOW A GREED VS. SAFETY ISSUE. DON'T BE FOOLED THIS WILL BE THE DETRIMENTAL FOR SEVERAL YEARS TO ALL MEMBERS ON THE BOTTOM HALF OF ANY AIRLINE SENOIRITY LIST!!! :down:
Aviation Experts Reconsider Retirement Age for Pilots
Financial Woes Prompt Union to Look Anew at Federal Rule
By Matthew L. Wald, The New York Times
WASHINGTON (Feb. 6) - The airline industry's financial crisis and the collapse of some pension plans are leading the nation's biggest pilot union and some aviation experts to question a federal rule requiring that airline pilots retire at the age of 60.
Letting pilots work a few years longer would give those who are suddenly facing much more frugal retirements more time to save money, and could reduce the funds' expenses by cutting the number of pensioners, advocates say. For some airlines, it could also trim operating costs by reducing the need to train new pilots, although not all airlines would see benefits and some might see additional costs, experts say.
Some pilots see the idea of another few years of work as intensely appealing, and are arguing that it would be good for the industry, too. Graham W. Jones 3rd, a 59-year-old captain who flies Boeing 747's for United Airlines, said the influx of retiring pilots would strain the finances of the government's Pension Guarantee Benefit Corporation, which is poised to take over United's pension plan. The corporation has already taken over US Airways' pension plan...
- INTERESTING HOW FOR YEARS ALPA STATED 'AGE 60' WAS A SAFETY ISSUE. NOW, TODAY IT'S A FINANCIAL ISSUE...GOTTA LOVE ALPA'S SENOIR MEMBERS THAT WANT TO CHANGE THE RULES IN THE MIDDLE OF THE GAME $$$. NICE JOB CAPT. DUANE WOERTH!!!
Aviation Experts Reconsider Retirement Age for Pilots
Financial Woes Prompt Union to Look Anew at Federal Rule
By Matthew L. Wald, The New York Times
WASHINGTON (Feb. 6) - The airline industry's financial crisis and the collapse of some pension plans are leading the nation's biggest pilot union and some aviation experts to question a federal rule requiring that airline pilots retire at the age of 60.
Letting pilots work a few years longer would give those who are suddenly facing much more frugal retirements more time to save money, and could reduce the funds' expenses by cutting the number of pensioners, advocates say. For some airlines, it could also trim operating costs by reducing the need to train new pilots, although not all airlines would see benefits and some might see additional costs, experts say.
Some pilots see the idea of another few years of work as intensely appealing, and are arguing that it would be good for the industry, too. Graham W. Jones 3rd, a 59-year-old captain who flies Boeing 747's for United Airlines, said the influx of retiring pilots would strain the finances of the government's Pension Guarantee Benefit Corporation, which is poised to take over United's pension plan. The corporation has already taken over US Airways' pension plan...
- INTERESTING HOW FOR YEARS ALPA STATED 'AGE 60' WAS A SAFETY ISSUE. NOW, TODAY IT'S A FINANCIAL ISSUE...GOTTA LOVE ALPA'S SENOIR MEMBERS THAT WANT TO CHANGE THE RULES IN THE MIDDLE OF THE GAME $$$. NICE JOB CAPT. DUANE WOERTH!!!
coolflyingfool
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There must have been far more retirements than planned. UA has just announced that they were cutting domestic capacity by another 3% in 2005. I am glad for the 150 who will get back in to the right seat.
L
luvn737s
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It's never been a safety issue. Why is it so bad that the bottom guys will be able to earn top scale for a few extra years if they choose? Why is it so bad that a lousy rule is finally being changed?whaledriver said:
I don't think segregation should have been allowed to continue just to protect the job of the guy who made "Whites Only" signs. The upside to changing this rule far outweighs temporary pain.
mrfish3726
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The age 60 limitation is discrimination! If you can pass the ClassI and have no previous medical history that could impact safety than you should be able to fly till age 65 retirement. I hoep they get it change, age 60 doesn't make you any less compitent or safe than a 25 year old flying.
"It's never been a safety issue. Why is it so bad that the bottom guys will be able to earn top scale for a few extra years if they choose? Why is it so bad that a lousy rule is finally being changed?
The upside to changing this rule far outweighs temporary pain."
"The age 60 limitation is discrimination! If you can pass the ClassI and have no previous medical history that could impact safety than you should be able to fly till age 65 retirement. I hoep they get it change, age 60 doesn't make you any less compitent or safe than a 25 year old flying."
Now let's consider these two posts. On the surface they sound OK, but let's consider the implications.
These guys want to stay in the best paying seat for a few more years. To HE11 with the guys that vacated the seats for them in the past. It's all about them. that's understandable. I just think we should be honest about the motivations.
Will the "younger" pilots then get more years at the top also? NO. They will STILL have to wait longer to move up. Can they chose to retire at 60 and still be equally well off? NO, their progression will be slowed by the Herpes at the top, AND IRS exemptions that were in place due to the early retirement age will go away, since after all "you don't have to retire at 60".
It's really comical that in one breath people decry age 60 as "arbitrary", yet then say "let them go to 65". Why not 70? 75? 80?. but surely they they wouldn't be able to pass a class one if they got to old......right.. Hmm, you stand to make 200K next year if you get a class one, 0 if you don't. Nah, there'd be no incentive to pay off a less than "honest" ame.... 🙄
How about disability? Because pilots can have a career cut short with minor medical issues, many off us carry LOL insurance. In some cases the company pays. Up until 9-11, we had some Herpes FE's pushing 70 who were STILL collecting 747 and DC-10 FE pay (higher than today's NB capt) LONG AFTER THE FLEETS HAD BEEN RETIRED. They were burning up the sick leave. Do you foresee a new "de facto" retirement plan? Collecting "long term disability" insurance after age 60 until you die? All you have to do is fail your physical. The result? LTDI will simply go away. History has shown us that at companies that allowed the senior guys to become "ROPES", sick leave usage was extremely high. Let them stay in the pilot seat and you'll see guys expecting to get 150 days of vacation a year and 500 hours of sick leave, all on the backs of everyone else.
DAL suposedly had a VERY senior F/A who took two things to annual recurrent training. Her walker and her lawyer. I'd expect that to be the future of the pilot profession also.
The upside to changing this rule far outweighs temporary pain."
"The age 60 limitation is discrimination! If you can pass the ClassI and have no previous medical history that could impact safety than you should be able to fly till age 65 retirement. I hoep they get it change, age 60 doesn't make you any less compitent or safe than a 25 year old flying."
Now let's consider these two posts. On the surface they sound OK, but let's consider the implications.
These guys want to stay in the best paying seat for a few more years. To HE11 with the guys that vacated the seats for them in the past. It's all about them. that's understandable. I just think we should be honest about the motivations.
Will the "younger" pilots then get more years at the top also? NO. They will STILL have to wait longer to move up. Can they chose to retire at 60 and still be equally well off? NO, their progression will be slowed by the Herpes at the top, AND IRS exemptions that were in place due to the early retirement age will go away, since after all "you don't have to retire at 60".
It's really comical that in one breath people decry age 60 as "arbitrary", yet then say "let them go to 65". Why not 70? 75? 80?. but surely they they wouldn't be able to pass a class one if they got to old......right.. Hmm, you stand to make 200K next year if you get a class one, 0 if you don't. Nah, there'd be no incentive to pay off a less than "honest" ame.... 🙄
How about disability? Because pilots can have a career cut short with minor medical issues, many off us carry LOL insurance. In some cases the company pays. Up until 9-11, we had some Herpes FE's pushing 70 who were STILL collecting 747 and DC-10 FE pay (higher than today's NB capt) LONG AFTER THE FLEETS HAD BEEN RETIRED. They were burning up the sick leave. Do you foresee a new "de facto" retirement plan? Collecting "long term disability" insurance after age 60 until you die? All you have to do is fail your physical. The result? LTDI will simply go away. History has shown us that at companies that allowed the senior guys to become "ROPES", sick leave usage was extremely high. Let them stay in the pilot seat and you'll see guys expecting to get 150 days of vacation a year and 500 hours of sick leave, all on the backs of everyone else.
DAL suposedly had a VERY senior F/A who took two things to annual recurrent training. Her walker and her lawyer. I'd expect that to be the future of the pilot profession also.
L
luvn737s
Guest
Busdrvr said:
mrfish3726 said:
If 60 is discriminatory then why is 65 not discriminatory? Wouldn't any number that is agreed upon a discriminatory number?
Having flown with several 59 year olds in the past few years. I do not support extension as most do have diminished reaction times and can not cope with the time zones of international flying, nor do they do well in hearing and understanding foreign controllers.
Now, FISH why not speak on a topic you have some knowledge and experience with. A stuck seatback or a non-flushing lav.
Walmartgreeter
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Having flown with several 59 year olds in the past few years. I do not support extension as most do have diminished reaction times and can not cope with the time zones of international flying, nor do they do well in hearing and understanding foreign controllers.
I personally do not support the over 60 flying, but only because it hurts ME...at least I am honest. But I disagree. I will take the so called "slower reaction time" pilot (and it think that is a bunch of bull, anyway) with 40 years experience over anybody else younger. The number of emergency actions (at least at U) has been decreased by 90% over the last decade. We now use the checklist for even engine fires. About the only things left to "immediate action" are smoke problems and duel engine losses. EXPERIENCE has proven it is better to delay action and use a checklist than to start shutting down the wrong engine, pump, or generator. I don't understand foreign controllers any better now, at almost 50, than I did at 22. Big woop. Take care. Greeter.
I personally do not support the over 60 flying, but only because it hurts ME...at least I am honest. But I disagree. I will take the so called "slower reaction time" pilot (and it think that is a bunch of bull, anyway) with 40 years experience over anybody else younger. The number of emergency actions (at least at U) has been decreased by 90% over the last decade. We now use the checklist for even engine fires. About the only things left to "immediate action" are smoke problems and duel engine losses. EXPERIENCE has proven it is better to delay action and use a checklist than to start shutting down the wrong engine, pump, or generator. I don't understand foreign controllers any better now, at almost 50, than I did at 22. Big woop. Take care. Greeter.
