Pilots not allowed to have enough fuel?

[BoeingBoy]

Not if the same 8 pilots always add extra fuel for every flight - that seems to be the case. I am sure that airlines track fuel loads by pilot - so the outliers are easy to spot.....It's a fair question:

Only if you merely take the company's word for the entire situation. And use the "I am sure that..." as a substitute for knowing the facts - why bother with facts when they may show that management is really just sending a message to the pilot group.

Jim

 

[allstrike]

Not if the same 8 pilots always add extra fuel for every flight - that seems to be the case. I am sure that airlines track fuel loads by pilot - so the outliers are easy to spot.....It's a fair question:

Capt - why is your personal fuel cost per hour higher than every other pilot who flys the same equip on the same route? It doesn't sound like these pilots were picked at random.

My bet is the really complicated process works like this.

Dispatcher gives pilot fuel estimate.

Pilot adds 3K lbs to number rather than do any complicated math he didn't do since flight school.

Hey the next time you decide to drive across country try this.Get your cars owners manuel out,that part that says est 22 mgh on highway.Then look at your gas gauge.Figure out how many miles you can go on your existing fuel load.
Go to the gas station and buy just enough gas to get to your destination per your computations.
Now with less than a full tank start out on your trip.
Rules you must follow.
1.No fuel can be added after you leave.
Now did consider in rain,wind,bad traffic,bad road,an accident ahead.Detours,bad air filter,poor fuel,

or would you just like to fill the tank at the start or the trip and not worry about these things.

Also did anyone try to consider the fact that the extra put on the a/c is still good for the next trip.....duh.
Trying to calculate a minimum load for flight that will be safe is in my mind a voodoo science,its not worth the savings to put peoples lives in danger.Period.
Just the humble openion of a 30yr A&P mechanic.But then hay maybe next year airbus will put in/flt refueling ports on the a/c.

 

[ReadyNow]

Only if you merely take the company's word for the entire situation. And use the "I am sure that..." as a substitute for knowing the facts - why bother with facts when they may show that management is really just sending a message to the pilot group.

Jim

Why were these 8 pilots singled out? Were they picked at random? Or because they were senior? Or because they were "trouble makers"?

Are you claiming that these pilots average fuel loads are no different than anyother pilot in US Airways?

 

[Planemx]

Why were these 8 pilots singled out? Were they picked at random? Or because they were senior? Or because they were "trouble makers"?

Are you claiming that these pilots average fuel loads are no different than anyother pilot in US Airways?

They can pick 'em out...they walked 8 techs out from PHX for performing work outside their scope. They were able to see how often these guys wrote stuff up/documented discrepancies and what they were...then compared it to what they were doing at the time. I think the longer the flight, over water, into weather, congested airspace......restrictive MEL's...yeah, more fuel might be a good idea if possible. If these guys are just being pinheads just to be pinheads and playing a game - then they need to be 'schooled'.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Are you claiming that these pilots average fuel loads are no different than anyother pilot in US Airways?

No, because I don't have all the facts. What we have is a "he said - she said" situation but plenty of people are taking sides based on no facts but rather their impulse to believe one side or the other (plus freedom's "I've got my big raise so everyone else needs to do whatever is necessary to insure I keep it").

I'll tell you one thing that was a fact when I retired - some Capts weren't intrested in fuel savings and some were, and both groups crossed the seniority gamut. So why is the company only calling in these 8 senior Capts for this "special training. Is it really possible than none of the other roughly 2500 Captains disregard fuel efficiency? Or is it possible that senior Captains were chosen to send a message - "If we can do this to senior Captains, think what we can do to you less senior pilots."

The only fact I know for sure is that the Capt has final authority - the FAA says so. Until someone offers proof one way or the other, I'll stick with that concept rather than support what may be efforts to influence the Captain's decisions.

Jim

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Why were these 8 pilots singled out? Were they picked at random? Or because they were senior? Or because they were "trouble makers"?

Are you claiming that these pilots average fuel loads are no different than anyother pilot in US Airways?

Hey! here's an idea totally foreign to some our our management folks. How about using some LEADERSHIP and building a TEAM, instead of the usual philosophy of "the beatings will continue until morale improves?"

Haven't seen that approach around here in decades!

If folks need disciplined, then do it. If not, then don't. Stop playing silly games. Everyone sees right through them.

 

[freedom]

WELL SAID, JIM.

It still amazes me, even after all their screw-ups, Tempe still has a devoted, kool-aid drinking flock of "followers". This corporate intimidation is happening in all departments on all levels so much so that many of us have to say "these are just my opinions" in order to be kept from being hauled into the office for posting here.....

Hopefully now, the flying public(or at least the CNN watching public) will start to see what is REALLY going on at this company.......

Kudos for USAPA for stepping up to the plate on an important matter and putting some action behind their words--now if we could just get the rest of the unions to follow suit.......

There’s no kooliade drinking here … I just happen to know the little games usapa likes to play , so I don’t put much stock in what they say …. Your sort of like the PR person for the company , you have to read between the lines to find the true meaning …

What you want is more money … what you’ll get is nothing …

As for the crack down , yes I’m aware it’s happening … it’s system wide , all departments all stations … I almost got myself in trouble not to long ago … there’s a palatable tension out there … but these types of things happen when companies start to die …. Because we ARE dying …. So their cracking down in an effort to stop waste and preventable mistakes on all levels …. A noble cause ..


You owe us USAPA …. And we will collect …


Your actions have jeopardized the jobs of every us airways worker who puts food on the table for their children …every worker who needs a shelter over their heads and clothes on their backs ….

 

[dariencc]

You owe us USAPA …. And we will collect …

Your actions have jeopardized the jobs of every us airways worker who puts food on the table for their children …every worker who needs a shelter over their heads and clothes on their backs ….

It might be time for you to look around and see that the vast majority of our employees are handling these stressful times with resolve and good cheer. For whatever reason, you are clearly not equipped to handle tough times in the same way. I respectfully suggest that you get help. There are resources available through the company as well as other organizations.

It is a sad thing when the burdens of everyday life cause a grown man to crumble, both for the individual and the impacted family. Please take advantage of the programs that have been established for situations like your own.

Best wishes for a brighter future.

dariencc

 

[dariencc]

As a member of the flying public - with a commercial certificate and CFI - I see this as an example of 8 pilots who need to learn how to better plan their flights - rather than take the attitude - I always ask for an extra 3K pounds cuz then I don't have to think before I start engines...

I see this as pilots who don't want to manage their fuel and flight plan. The FAA reserves are quite adequate and it is strange that only a handful of pilots seem to have a problem....

Great Moments in USAviation.com History, 2008 nominations.

July 17, 2008: Post # 121

Cessna 150 yahoo telling the Transatlantic boys how he "sees" things.

 

[freedom]

It might be time for you to look around and see that the vast majority of our employees are handling these stressful times with resolve and good cheer. For whatever reason, you are clearly not equipped to handle tough times in the same way. I respectfully suggest that you get help. There are resources available through the company as well as other organizations.

It is a sad thing when the burdens of everyday life cause a grown man to crumble, both for the individual and the impacted family. Please take advantage of the programs that have been established for situations like your own.

Best wishes for a brighter future.

dariencc

In your dream world do planes fly on love and sugar ?

Are all the workers rich ?

In your dream world are the planes always full of pax no matter what ?

Or are you simply tripping on angel dust ????


I need help ? I need help ? YOU sir need help ….

I have bad news for you … our airline , us airways … it’s in DANGER … our loads are looking not so good for the fall … I don’t have a finance degree and thus cannot explain to you in detail how not having any pax leads to our business going bye bye and how that would personally affect you …

Because I was never college educated I can’t explain to you how our weak dollar is sooner or later going to hammer away at our economy … I can’t find the words or even the thoughts to impart how the cost of oil has increased by over 100% from last year alone for our company … sadly no I , a lowly baggage handler can’t make you understand my hard to comprehend thoughts …

I guess I must truly be crazy …. To accuse you of harming our company by putting out extremely negative PR at a oh so sensitive time … I must be luney for warning you that your actually jeopardizing your own jobs …

Maybe I WILL call the help line … perhaps they can set me straight …

 

[ReadyNow]

Great Moments in USAviation.com History, 2008 nominations.

July 17, 2008: Post # 121

Cessna 150 yahoo telling the Transatlantic boys how he "sees" things.

That's a C152 buddy.......

Keep smiling

 

[EastUS]

"My guess is that some - lets say - 8 out of many - don't do that....

That's a C152 buddy.......

Keep smiling

With that combination...who could do anything other than smile?

Freedom: "Maybe I WILL call the help line … perhaps they can set me straight …" ....Hard to argue with that last.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

I guess I must truly be crazy …. To accuse you of harming our company by putting out extremely negative PR at a oh so sensitive time … I must be luney for warning you that your actually jeopardizing your own jobs …

Maybe I WILL call the help line … perhaps they can set me straight …

Please do. Then, get a job in another industry. This is my third decade in this business. It NEVER gets stable OR secure, so get over it or LEAVE.

Please, put down any sharp objects until you get some help.

 

[freedom]

Please do. Then get a job in another industry. This is my third decade in this business. It NEVER gets stable OR secure, so get over it or LEAVE.

Please, put down any sharp objects until you get some help.

Being old may have dulled you to what’s going on in the world around you ….

I’m trying to warn you but your refusing to listen ….

OIL PRICES AT 130 SOMETHING A BARREL ARE NOT NORMAL!!!!!

THESE OIL PRICES ARE GREATLY AFFECTING THE ECONOMY IN A NEGATIVE WAY !!!

WE HAVE A CREDIT CRISIS IN THE US ECONOMY , IT’S AFFECTING IT IN A NEGATIVE WAY …

WE HAVE A MORTAGE MELTDOWN IN PROGRESS WHICH IS AFFECTING THE ECONOMY IN A NEGATIVE WAY …


Can you hear me now through your ear piece or do I need to gather up some more people and we will all shout it loud enough for you to hear together .

 

[N965VJ]

This, folks, is what happens when people believe what morons like Lou Dobbs has to say.


This post is double ROT-13 encrypted to keep Tempe off my back.