PIT -- HUB AGAIN?

[jetpiedmont79]

Maybe we should get "Beef up PIT wristbands"! I do think the economics in the short-term (1 year or less) are glum for PIT, but I think that with time, they are going to realize some of the HUGE benefits that an extra bank of flights would make...not only to the O and D passengers, but for releaving some stress on the PHL connections.

 

[Travelpro72]

Without pitting PHL against PIT it is only logical to relieve PHL from a little bit of congestion and reroute some flights through PIT. With as many people that reside in the Northeastern United States the company cannot expect PHL to handle the majority of the operations as it does now. The fact that they are so close together is totally beside the point. It could be used to US's advantage unlike other carriers without two airports as close together. This is such old news but PHL cannot and NEVER will be able to handle a HUB operation without the reliance of nearby airports to take the brunt when a raindrop falls on the runway there. PHL airport and it's airspace are horrible and not reliable. It was the kooks no longer here that did what they did and I'm sure DP sees that PIT can be used for more than it currently is. Though this all may come down the road and not right away.

 

[barbeetantrums]

Is this a pretty airport? It needs more US flights.

 

[FWAAA]

Wet Blanket Warning

Not only will PIT see further reductions (and will never be a large US hub again), but there's also relief on the horizon for the overcrowded conditions at PHL as well: WN just announced that it has leased two additional gates at PHL, bringing its total to eight. Eight gates can easily support 100 WN flights a day. Slow and steady, WN's expansion in PHL will continue to depress revenue at LCC. Think BWI. The future ain't pretty.

 

[Weight&Balance]

As far as CLP in PIT stands .It will demise and operations on a local level will be done. PHX operations informed PHL directors to seek out space in PHL to handle their own W&B. Sorry to inform you this way but this is what was given to us from the opearations directors own mouth.

 

[traderjake]

Is this a pretty airport? It needs more US flights.

No, it needs about 2 million more people living around it to make it a viable hub.

 

[FlyUs]

Wet Blanket Warning

Not only will PIT see further reductions (and will never be a large US hub again), but there's also relief on the horizon for the overcrowded conditions at PHL as well: WN just announced that it has leased two additional gates at PHL, bringing its total to eight. Eight gates can easily support 100 WN flights a day. Slow and steady, WN's expansion in PHL will continue to depress revenue at LCC. Think BWI. The future ain't pretty.

And someday, the Wright Amendment will be gone. Think BNA.

 

[av8or]

No, it needs about 2 million more people living around it to make it a viable hub.

you mean like the friendly and hard working folks in the philadelphia area?

 

[AstroLounge]

you mean like the friendly and hard working folks in the philadelphia area?

And child throw in that notion of "Brotherly Love" I'll have my bags packed by sundown. Give me an illuminated Heritage Logo pin and I'll even rollerblade to my next flight

 

[ITRADE]

The schedules for PIT are getting tough. Im supposed to go to beautiful PKB the week after next and the first flight doesnt get out of PIT until about noon. So, a single overnight trip gets turned almost into a 2-day jaunt...

 

[FWAAA]

And someday, the Wright Amendment will be gone. Think BNA.

I hope so - I have been opposed to the WA for decades. And nope, I don't work for AMR or any of its subsidiaries. I want to see unfettered competition from DAL.

To right size the legacy capacity, the hubs at CVG, MEM, MSP, SLC and a few other smaller places need to be dismantled. AA did its part by dismantling BNA, RNO, SJC (more than once), RDU and, more recently, STL. Other small hubs have been canceled or severely trimmed, like DAY, CMH and CLE. Now it's time for other airlines to pare back the number of hubs.

Running a huge hub at PHL (as US does) is a little like what life would be like an AA hub at DAL if DFW had never been built. Or a UA/AA hub at MDW if ORD had never been built. PHL (the metro area, not the airport) is probably large enough to support a nearly 500 daily flight hub, but the airport is deficient. It ain't an efficient hub airport. PHL's long-term future is probably as a point to point city, not a connecting hub. Of course, it will likely be years before anyone admits that reality.

PIT, on the other hand, now has an airport that would make a great hub. Too bad the metro area lacks sufficient population to make it work.

 

[Kev3188]

I hope so - I have been opposed to the WA for decades. And nope, I don't work for AMR or any of its subsidiaries. I want to see unfettered competition from DAL.

To right size the legacy capacity, the hubs at CVG, MEM, MSP, SLC and a few other smaller places need to be dismantled.

Using your theory, NW would only have a hub @ DTW, and DL would only have on in ATL (with a "gateway" @ JFK). Even if you're one of the people advocating a DL/NW merge, do you think that would be enough? If so, why?

 

[FWAAA]

Using your theory, NW would only have a hub @ DTW, and DL would only have on in ATL (with a "gateway" @ JFK). Even if you're one of the people advocating a DL/NW merge, do you think that would be enough? If so, why?

I do believe that DL should close SLC and CVG and focus on its strength at ATL and JFK.

As to NW - I don't see DL and NW merging. I'm a proponent of AA stepping up and consolidating its operations with those of NW. Don't care how. Merger, asset purchase, liquidation auction - whatever it takes. It made sense nearly six years ago when the two discussed an AA purchase of NW, and it makes even more sense today, given UAL's survival and exit from Ch 11.

With the NRT and China rights of NW, a combined AA/NW is perfectly situated to compete with UAL, which I see finally joining with DL (which it wanted to do years ago).

Under this scenario, UAL/DL closes SLC and CVG and AA/NW closes MEM and MSP and probably right-sizes DTW to look a lot more like STL's current schedule. Detroit is an important industrial and financial center, but not every important city like DTW can profitably support a huge hub.

Besides - conventional wisdom is that single-airline dominant hub cities pay thru the nose for their nonstop flight convenience. Pax in DFW, MSP, DTW, ATL, IAH, etc. complain that their dominant airline gouges them. Academics have said that's not really the case in ORD, given the healthy competition between UAL and AA, which helps keep prices in check.

DIA and ORD make sense for a combined UAL/DL, especially since SLC-connected pax could move to DIA and any truly high-fare pax connecting at CVG would now connect at ORD. ATL would still make sense as a southern hub (after all, I see AA keeping DFW, ORD and MIA). UAL really should choose LAX or SFO, and LAX really makes more sense for a hub, given SFO's perpetual runway/weather issues not faced at LAX.

US/HP? As I have posted before - that's a lotta hubs for a somewhat smaller airline. Most of the tough decision has already happened at PIT. PHL and CLT continuing as connecting hubs? Dunno whether that's a recipe for profits. We'll see.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Hello, This is my first post, so hopefully it gets a few good responses. Anyway, I was in PHX visting a friend and went to the new HQ (BTW, it looks great) and overheard some people (with employee badges) talking about bringing back a few more PIT flights to make connections easier and free-up some space at PHL. I didn't hear much as far as specifics, other the Burlington, Bangor, and San Diego. Anyone else have any ideas or thoughts? I really think it would be a good idea, given how much "fun" PHL can be. Thanks!

my 'gut feeling' is that ORD passengers will benefit as ORD may/will get increased flight activity as early as late spring. I think it makes better sense that your company will secure PHX & LAS before PHL & PIT. Not saying it is wise or not but that would be the way I think your company will approach things.

regards,

 

[ringmaruf]

And someday, the Wright Amendment will be gone. Think BNA.

Er, what does the Wright Amendment have to do with PIT? :blink:

And as for BNA (or RDU)? I'm sick of people mentioning them. The AA hubs at those two cities were *tiny* by today's standards, which is why WN was able to restore a huge chunk of the lost service. BNA now has about 80 WN flights daily. Personally, I don't think PIT will get that big for WN, I think it'll be 40-50 flights, 60 tops. But say it does grow to BNA size--that'll still be less than 20% of the size of the former US hub. They're not the savior.

The schedules for PIT are getting tough. Im supposed to go to beautiful PKB the week after next and the first flight doesnt get out of PIT until about noon. So, a single overnight trip gets turned almost into a 2-day jaunt...

You can't blame the PKB schedules on US, that's all the DOT's fault for selecting RegionsAir to replace the Air Midwest service. Of course, RegionsAir applied with an aircraft type they don't fly, so they're now over 3 months past their deadline to begin service, and pax boardings have gone to hell due to the uncertainty, and Mesa is losing their shirts being held-in, and has reduced their scheds to the minimum allowed. I still can't get over how the DOT screwed CKB/PKB/MGW like that.

To right size the legacy capacity, the hubs at CVG, MEM, MSP, SLC and a few other smaller places need to be dismantled. AA did its part by dismantling BNA, RNO, SJC (more than once), RDU and, more recently, STL. Other small hubs have been canceled or severely trimmed, like DAY, CMH and CLE. Now it's time for other airlines to pare back the number of hubs.

Do you realize (apparently not) that MSP in fact has better O&D numbers and produces more revenue for NW than DTW?