PIT -- HUB AGAIN?

[barbeetantrums]

I've always wondered why people were so set against having PIT and PHL as hubs. All you would hear is that you don't need 2 hubs in the same state over and over again. PIT to PHL is 304 miles. Can someone explain why LAS is a hub still? LAS to PHX is 287 miles. HHHMM? Seems to me that LAS shouldn't be a hub either in the grand scheme of things.

LAS and PHX differ from PIT and PHL as LAS does most of its "hubbing" when the vampires are out. There is a very large bank for redeyes but it is very quiet during the daylight hours.

 

[Travels2mch]

douglas.parker@usairways.com

He may not answer but his cloggod inbox may give him a hint.

OK barbee you inspired me. I just sent a lengthy email to Doug.....we'll see if he responds. I know I regularly go to .com and email commendations on flight and ground crew that are exceptional at customer service (which is very often). I usually get a response thanking me and I hope those acknowledgements make it to the employees and their management. This is the first time I've contacted management personally, so we'll see what happens.

 

[Jimmy Neutron]

OK barbee you inspired me. I just sent a lengthy email to Doug.....we'll see if he responds. I know I regularly go to .com and email commendations on flight and ground crew that are exceptional at customer service (which is very often). I usually get a response thanking me and I hope those acknowledgements make it to the employees and their management. This is the first time I've contacted management personally, so we'll see what happens.

If you want, Ive had some contact with Executive V.P. East Ross Bonnano. I can ask him if there is a way the flying public can have an avenue to share their concerns and desires with US Airways senior management. Sort of like a seperate e-mail address or a special address for frequent or ex-frequent fliers who would like to voice concerns or make suggestions.
If you want to you can e-mail me to discuss this further at pappy101@comcast.net

 

[EyeInTheSky]

I recall, quite vividly, all of those :blink: inaccurate :blink: predictions; yes, they were always good for a laugh! 😉

Go PIT/Go Steelers!

Yeah, where is the little Capitano anyway?

GO STEELERS!! GO PANTHERS!!!

 

[tadjr]

I've always wondered why people were so set against having PIT and PHL as hubs. All you would hear is that you don't need 2 hubs in the same state over and over again. PIT to PHL is 304 miles. Can someone explain why LAS is a hub still? LAS to PHX is 287 miles. HHHMM? Seems to me that LAS shouldn't be a hub either in the grand scheme of things.

I dont think it was necessarily that they were in the same state, but that they were so close together AND chasing the same connecting traffic. You could have a 700a/1000a/1200n/200p/400p/700p to PHL AND 730a/930a/1145a/230p/500p to PIT offering the SAME connection destinations. So, instead of offering 6 flights a day from point A to point B, you were offering 11 and there just wasnt the connecting traffic in most markets to warrant this many opportunities. Add into it the conx available via DCA/CLT/LGA (and at one time BWI/BOS and the nonstops) and it was overkill. If the PHL flights have enough traffic for local, keep them all, otherwise just skd for local and IF conx are available (or timed for international ONLY conx) then keep them, otherwise funnel all other conx via PIT/CLT into and out of the NE. Instead, they offered ALL conx via BOTH hubs and there just was too much availability chasing too few people in the same area.
At the same time you could also say there was quite a bit of overlap with PIT and CLT too. Many nonstops from PIT to the smaller cities of the Carolinas. Many of these though let people make one stop conx that otherwise would not have been offered via CLT.ie TYS-PIT-ELM, GSP-PIT-SCE.

 

[javaboy]

increase in traffic was not only expected but predictable. 12months after SWA enters a market they generate increased traffic not by "stealing" a large market share from exsisting carriers but from traffic that otherwise would not have traveled...once they achieve a susatained load factor, total airport traffic rises. it is documented as "the southwest effect".
now the trick is to capitalize on this and capture most of the new traffic.

 

[FCYTravis]

As Barbee mentioned, the LAS hub is all about red-eyes. There's a few local O&D flights from West Coast destinations, but the joint really gets jumping around 9:30-10 p.m., when a bank comes in from the West Coast outstations. From then on, Terminals A and B at LAS are packed to the gills. I have never seen a LAS red-eye go out anything less than filled.

At about 10:15-10:30, a bank comes in from the East Coast outstations, and then starting around 10:40 a huge bank of red-eye flights rolls out across the country, from O'Hare to Orlando. Then, just as midnight approaches, a final bank goes out with o'dark-thirty arrivals at the West Coast spokes.

I do the LAS red-eyes/night flights quite a bit, as it's a great way to get out East for work and get back home in time for classes Monday morning. They're also virtually guaranteed upgrades, as the flights are rarely elite-heavy

 

[barbeetantrums]

OK barbee you inspired me. I just sent a lengthy email to Doug.....we'll see if he responds. I know I regularly go to .com and email commendations on flight and ground crew that are exceptional at customer service (which is very often). I usually get a response thanking me and I hope those acknowledgements make it to the employees and their management. This is the first time I've contacted management personally, so we'll see what happens.

At last I have inspired someone. 😛 If he doesn't answer, there are more people to e-mail. Let us know. I'm sure his inbox is filled as of late and you won't hear from him but perhaps it will get his attention.

 

[US1YFARE]

They're also virtually guaranteed upgrades, as the flights are rarely elite-heavy

Not the US east operated flights--with 8FC, unless you book a FC seat, chances of getting FC are not good even as a US1. When I didn't purchase a FC seat, my upgrade chances, even when checking in 24 hours in advance on the nose were 50-50. But nowadays, they may not be having that problem because of the exodus.

Oh, by the way, Travels2much, would love to know if you get a response to your email/letter. Many customers, particularly on the East, are being ignored and not responded to--not even, oh well, thank you for your comments, sorry you feel that way, but we hope you keep flying--they don't even return phone calls when they say they will.

 

[CLTBWIDAYSYR]

The thing everyone seems to forget is that PIT has almost double the O & D traffic that CLT has and no one says anything about having 500+ flights a day there.
Oh I forgot it's the strategic location of CLT that makes it work.
If anyone would look back when PIT was the primary hub for US they would see that as a connecting hub (that is what CLT is) it worked, people loved it and the operation of the airline wasn't in the tank constantly.
PHL will never work the way they have been trying to use it no matter how much $ and equipment and employees they throw at it, never.
All Bronner and Lakefield did was take a failed Dave Siegel plan, put it into action and had no clue how bad the plan actually was. But those two were in way over their heads to realize how flawed that plan was and tweak it as needed.
So the end result is what we have today, a mess that no one wants to admit needs changed or has the balls to do it.
If Doug Parker is as smart as everyone seems to think he is (everyone thought Dave Siegel was god too) :blink: then he will do the right thing and pull the connecting traffic from PHL or the whole company will just be in BK yet again.

Charlotte works better than PIT as a hub for one very big reason: it's cheap to operate. It costs US about $1.95 to send a connex through CLT (the least expensive connex of any traditional hub airport in the United States). Compare that to almost $12.00 to send that same custormer through PIT.

US retains 30% of all parking revenues at CLT (regardless of which airline a customer is flying), the training facility and both hangars were designed for US, but built by the City of Charlotte. They are leased back to the airline at rediculously low terms.

 

[Jimmy Neutron]

Charlotte works better than PIT as a hub for one very big reason: it's cheap to operate. It costs US about $1.95 to send a connex through CLT (the least expensive connex of any traditional hub airport in the United States). Compare that to almost $12.00 to send that same custormer through PIT.

US retains 30% of all parking revenues at CLT (regardless of which airline a customer is flying), the training facility and both hangars were designed for US, but built by the City of Charlotte. They are leased back to the airline at rediculously low terms.

B) You are correct about it being cheaper then PIT.
But that's only because so many flts were pulled out of PIT. PIT had similar facilities and contracts in place also. That info. was always hidden from the public to justify their plan.
When Siegel and company were making their threat about pulling the hub down in PIT, it was based on the fact that US had to pay much of the airport debt. If you can think back to all the prpoganda that was put out by US Airways at the time, all they talked about was the airport costs. They are the ones who the airport was built for remember. That being said, every airline anlylist in the industry put out the facts, whice were
-When US had over 500+ flts a day in PIT the costs were significantly lower then the 10-12 cost per psgr. that US dwelled on. Every time US pulled flts out of PIT the cost per psgr. rose right along with it. That would happen in CLT also by the way.
-They also pointed out that US had one of the best airport contracts in the country.PIT had clauses including US sharing in the revenues from parking, among other things. Similar to what CLT has.
-With US operating a large hub operation in PIT, the costs were significantly lower then PHL also, it should be noted.
They tried to make it out that the airport would crumble under the weight of a US de-hubbing, which was all bull as we can see today.
The only thing that crumbled as a result of the de-hubbing of PIT was US Airways, from the lost customer base(and it's huge by the way) and the continual degraded service the customer gets from the PHL experience. You can only screw people so many times and they will not be back.
So if US pulled flts down in CLT as they did in PIT, it would have the same effect, less flts=less money coming in=higher airport costs passed on to the airline.
That whole Seigel dog and pony show did one thing and one thing only.

-Ruin US Airways into near extinction and make themselves very, very rich-

If not we will be in the same boat as before and that's a fact.

Some interesting reading:

http://www.wpxi.com/news/2082934/detail.html

http://www.wpxi.com/news/2080606/detail.html

Note the airport costs mentioned in this article. Before any state help and after going from 542 flights a day prior to 9-11, to 372 flights a day.
http://www.wpxi.com/news/2165912/detail.html

http://www.wpxi.com/news/2265389/detail.html

http://www.wpxi.com/money/2423252/detail.html

Here's a good one, we started paying more for leases in PIT and we still are paying the higher premiums today, how smart is that one? We still have the same number of gates in PIT.
http://www.wpxi.com/money/2742211/detail.html

Wow, big suprise US Back in second Bankruptcy:Loaded with more empty promises:
http://www.wpxi.com/money/3724715/detail.html

It looks to me like all of these (great) plans implemented by Seigel and company just didn't work.

These are the facts and this is why we are where we are today.

What we need now is someone smart enough to see what's really going on and grow a set, and do the right thing

 

[Travels2mch]

Oh, by the way, Travels2much, would love to know if you get a response to your email/letter. Many customers, particularly on the East, are being ignored and not responded to--not even, oh well, thank you for your comments, sorry you feel that way, but we hope you keep flying--they don't even return phone calls when they say they will.

I'll keep you posted US1......sitting here staring at my inbox just waiting....waiting....waiting.... 😛

 

[ClueByFour]

Charlotte works better than PIT as a hub for one very big reason: it's cheap to operate. It costs US about $1.95 to send a connex through CLT (the least expensive connex of any traditional hub airport in the United States). Compare that to almost $12.00 to send that same custormer through PIT.

US retains 30% of all parking revenues at CLT (regardless of which airline a customer is flying), the training facility and both hangars were designed for US, but built by the City of Charlotte. They are leased back to the airline at rediculously low terms.

ONly for the airline. The consumer pays thru the nose to fly ex-CLT (third highest airfare in the country).

BTW--the $12/pax is because US reduced it's schedule. PIT would now be around $5/pax if US had it's 2002 schedule in place.

 

[Jimmy Neutron]

ONly for the airline. The consumer pays thru the nose to fly ex-CLT (third highest airfare in the country).

BTW--the $12/pax is because US reduced it's schedule. PIT would now be around $5/pax if US had it's 2002 schedule in place.

That's what it's all about, Truth.

What we need is for everyone to actually realize this fact.

 

[FWAAA]

Er, what does the Wright Amendment have to do with PIT? :blink:

Do you realize (apparently not) that MSP in fact has better O&D numbers and produces more revenue for NW than DTW?

FlyUS mentioned BNA as a dig, apparently thinking I worked for AA or AMR.

Not only did I not realize that MSP has better O&D numbers and produces more revenue, I find the assertion hard to believe, given that the Detroit metro area is nearly twice as large as MSP. The point is that NW has been losing money somewhere, and it looks like MEM and MSP are good places to reduce connecting capacity.

About PIT - look for WN to increase its schedule to about 150 daily flights in the next couple years. Only thing slowing them down is the pace of airplane deliveries. Hard to get PIT and PHL from zero flights to 300-400 combined flights when you're also starting RSW and DEN. But give WN time - it will happen. WN's order book at Boeing is impressive.

And that doesn't even take into account the damage that ADD Dave can cause with his fleet of about 100 E190s.