Play by Play in courtroom AA wants to settle out of court WTF

[TWU informer]

Maybe they aren't planning on all of us being around for more than a couple of years?

FEAR!

 

[Real tired]

Because they understand the message you all have sent. They were expecting a yes vote from the ranks, they had no alternative plan if this was voted down. Now AA is in a bind. Now you, as the union employees, have a little leverage, use it to your advantage. When you guys come out looking much more sweeter than the rest of the groups that voted yes, then they will be wondering why in the world did they vote yes. Way to go guys!! I too, really thought that the mechanics were going to vote this crap in. 2003 All over again, in the company's eyes, now it's an exact oposite. Hold true to the memberships wants, not what the TWU international wants.. Great job guys!!!

Well said !!!

Now could you imagine the voice and power we'd have if all the AMT's at all the companies were together, combined under one union, such as AMFA for example?

 

[TWU informer]

Well said !!!

Now could you imagine the voice and power we'd have if all the AMT's at all the companies were together, combined under one union, such as AMFA for example?

Exactly

 

[Barfbag]

Sadly during PATCO, American Labor had its biggest chance and we ( all union airlines ) turned our backs instead,

We could have all united under one banner, one union.

Now we watch in horror and ask why. ?

 

[1AA]

Sounds to me that the TWU does not want to fight in court. The pilots made their points and the Flight attendants will add to the pilots arguments by adding more points. All the TWU has to do is listen and take notes before they get their turn next week. The hard work was done by the pilots and flight attendants. The TWU has to follow their lead and plead their case. The TWU's job just got easier by batting last.
This is a new position for the TWU since they are not leaders for the better but for the worse. They are leaders in CONCESSIONS but followers in improvements for the cause.

 

[NYer]

Do you think they want us pissed off for six years
:blink:

We've been pissed off for the last 20...what's six more? :angry:

 

[NYer]

Yea. The TWU is the ONLY union that has taken concessions in the airline industry over the last 10 years...including AMFA.

 

[TWU informer]

Yea. The TWU is the ONLY union that has taken concessions in the airline industry over the last 10 years...including AMFA.

While most know that your claim is not true, the main difference I see is that when it was happening to AMFA the TWU used that as a organizing tool and blamed AMFA time and time again. Now that is it happening to the TWU, it is no longer a union problem. Double Speak Horse Crap.

Now the TWU Local Spokesman is blaming all stations other than Tulsa before he even has the vote count in his hands.

Fear mongering fools always eventually get proven wrong and ignorant.

Why is it the TWU Memberships job to take on the responsibility of lay-offs or job loss? Why does the TWU allow the media to portray the membership guilty of failing to save jobs? Last I checked, it was managements job to hire, fire, reduce or increase headcount, not the Union's and damn sure not the membership of a Local.

Stupid is as Stupid Does!

 

[olderguyAMT]

AA really has no choice but to keep negotiating. If they don't attempt to find an out of court settlement, they won't meet the requirements for abrogation.

The union lawyers have arguments that question the requirements for abrogation.

link,

http://www.amrcaseinfo.com/maincase.php

try searching for docket 2726.

 

[FWAAA]

AA really has no choice but to keep negotiating. If they don't attempt to find an out of court settlement, they won't meet the requirements for abrogation.

You might be right, but I'm not sure that 1113 requires continued negotiation after AA presents its evidence that it met 1113's requirements, and AA already put on that evidence.

 

[Supercat575sci]

You are absolutely right! My father was a PATCO controller and yes the other unions did turn they're backs on them.

Sadly during PATCO, American Labor had its biggest chance and we ( all union airlines ) turned our backs instead,

We could have all united under one banner, one union.

Now we watch in horror and ask why. ?

 

[BoeingBoy]

Almost any company or bankruptcy Judge would prefer a consensual agreement to one imposed through 1113 proceedings (Lorenzo is the one exception I can think of off the top of my head). A consensual agreement leaves no questions dangling - can employees strike, do negotiations just keep going after abrogation, etc. Plus employees are generally better off with a consensual agreement, as distasteful as that agreement may be. If nothing else, they get a say in how the cuts are distributed among various contract items - lose less vacation in exchange for less paid sick time or whatever.

That's why there are few agreements that were abrogated despite all the legacy carriers except CO going through bankruptcy in the last decade.

Jim

 

[Overspeed]

Almost any company or bankruptcy Judge would prefer a consensual agreement to one imposed through 1113 proceedings (Lorenzo is the one exception I can think of off the top of my head). A consensual agreement leaves no questions dangling - can employees strike, do negotiations just keep going after abrogation, etc. Plus employees are generally better off with a consensual agreement, as distasteful as that agreement may be. If nothing else, they get a say in how the cuts are distributed among various contract items - lose less vacation in exchange for less paid sick time or whatever.

That's why there are few agreements that were abrogated despite all the legacy carriers except CO going through bankruptcy in the last decade.

Jim

So what could happen is the M&R/Stores CBA's get abrogated and the 14 to 21 day window opens where the judge encourages the parties to come to a consensual agreement. The unknown is how will the membership vote with the option of facing the abrogated CBA and its associated term sheet or the 4/26/2012 modified deal? The Company at that point will have its answer on abrogation - yes or no. We are praying for the judge to say no now.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Technically, if the Judge allows abrogation nothing says AA has to ever take that step - in theory they could continue to negotiate for a consensual agreement for 5 more years if they wanted. The Judge doesn't abrogate the contract, he just gives permission to AA for it to abrogate the contract.

But that's theory. In practice you'll probably only have a short window to reach a consensual agreement, assuming that the judge allows AA to abrogate the contract.

But essentially you're right - at some point in late June/early July (I forget the exact date that the Judge is expected to rule) you'll face a choice of either agreeing to whatever consensual terms have been reached or taking the term sheet. AA isn't going to negotiate for months, nevermind years.

Remember that AA is under the gun too. They have to get cost reductions in place to base a POR on, and they only have a limited amount of time to present a POR before others can present their own POR.

Jim

 

[FWAAA]

I think the judge is expected to rule on the 1113 motion by June 6.