Please fully explain System Protection, have questions?

[eolesen]

My mistake. AMFA was elected in July 2003, and the layoffs started in April with closure announced in May 2003. Un-doing what was already done or in motion probably wasn't an option, so I take back any inference that AMFA was at fault then, but it appears they didn't do anything to change that during the four years they were on property. With UA starting to close stations and get ready to lay off up to 20% of their ground workers, you still have the same situation about to unfold: senior people being screwed while junior people in the same classification keep their job.

Anyone willing to transfer should be able to bump the least senior person in their classification or a classification they can qualify for (i.e. AMT bumping a more junior OSM), regardless where that may take them.

 

[UAL_TECH]

My mistake. AMFA was elected in July 2003, and the layoffs started in April with closure announced in May 2003. Un-doing what was already done or in motion probably wasn't an option, so I take back any inference that AMFA was at fault then, but it appears they didn't do anything to change that during the four years they were on property. With UA starting to close stations and get ready to lay off up to 20% of their ground workers, you still have the same situation about to unfold: senior people being screwed while junior people in the same classification keep their job.

Anyone willing to transfer should be able to bump the least senior person in their classification or a classification they can qualify for (i.e. AMT bumping a more junior OSM), regardless where that may take them.

How would you propose for AMFA to make changes outside of section 6 negotiations?
Now that the Teamsters are running the show, let’s see how they handle it.
BTW, UA does not have an OSM classification.

B) xUT

 

[Boomer]

True Seniority would require that ANYTIME a Senior Union Member wanted to transfer, they would displace the most Junior Union Member at the station to which they desired a TRANSFER.

The current TWU system is not a true seniority system with respect to seniority in that Junior Seniority Union Members can remain on the clock if their station is not the MOST JUNIOR on the bump list.

Good Luck in getting true seniority recognized by the TWU.

 

[Deleted member 14439]

senority? lets not even talk about the psuedo-senority given to the mcie folks. :down:

 

[Joe Patroni]

I have read article 42--Job Security and think I understand it but I hear from others including my shop stewards something different. I currently am on RIF from my AMT position and hold a spot in an OSM shop. Trying to get all my ducks in a row for the next RIF. I understand if they layoff a large number in Tulsa it will hit me once again and this time I will take my $12,500 and hopefully take an AMT spot somewhere in the system, until I may return to Tulsa.

My confusion as is others I talk to is regarding system protection. I currently have system protection with my 97 occupational date. I will use closing AFW as an example. Some say that if AFW closes the guys there can come to Tulsa and bump lower senior guys to another station.

Some say that is not the case as with article 42.2 LINE #1 which reads.

RIF FOR SYSTEM PROTECTED EMPLOYEES

A SYSTEM PROTECTED EMPLOYEE CAN DISPLACE A NON-PROTECTED EMPLOYEE AT ANOTHER STATION. A SYSTEM PROTECTED EMPLOYEE CANNOT DISPLACE ANOTHER SYSTEM PROTECTED EMPLOYEE AT ANOTHER STATION.

So which is it? Am I reading something wrong? If they close AFW, as an example of course, can the 700 or so guys above me there bump me out of Tulsa?

This whole situation has got my nerves wrecked because this time if it does hit me again I will have to sell my home and move my family during a very stressful time.

This whole sitiuation sucks for everyone. I wish we all could just put in an honest days work and not have to worry about RIF's again, maybe someday........... <_<

Thanks.

Coming back to the topic, if you would like to stay in Tulsa, then by all means take the layoff but keep your recall rights. If you want to keep the job, then commute (for awhile anyway). I did one bump in 2002 going from LAX to SFO. My thought at the time was this: 1) I would be at SFO for no longer than 6 months because another RIF was going to happen. 2) If the RIF did occur, the worst thing that was going to happen to me was a 6 hour drive home to So Cal. After 19 months of commuting, I finally sold in So Cal and moved to the Bay Area. When that RIF finally came in 2005 (six months after I moved here), I chose to go to the street rather than go to the two choices I had at the time (ORD or BOS). That RIF is what finally gave me the shove to get out to the industry, which I did and I'm not looking back. I couldn't come back if I wanted to, I turned down both recalls late last year. Maybe this is the push you need to get out and move on. I personally recommend it to everyone.

 

[AA Tulsa Mechanic]

Coming back to the topic, if you would like to stay in Tulsa, then by all means take the layoff but keep your recall rights. If you want to keep the job, then commute (for awhile anyway). I did one bump in 2002 going from LAX to SFO. My thought at the time was this: 1) I would be at SFO for no longer than 6 months because another RIF was going to happen. 2) If the RIF did occur, the worst thing that was going to happen to me was a 6 hour drive home to So Cal. After 19 months of commuting, I finally sold in So Cal and moved to the Bay Area. When that RIF finally came in 2005 (six months after I moved here), I chose to go to the street rather than go to the two choices I had at the time (ORD or BOS). That RIF is what finally gave me the shove to get out to the industry, which I did and I'm not looking back. I couldn't come back if I wanted to, I turned down both recalls late last year. Maybe this is the push you need to get out and move on. I personally recommend it to everyone.

Can I ask what line of work you do now since you are not with AA any longer?

 

[Joe Patroni]

Can I ask what line of work you do now since you are not with AA any longer?

I'm in the oil industry.

 

[AA Tulsa Mechanic]

I'm in the oil industry.

Sent you a message.

 

[AMFAMAN]

My mistake. AMFA was elected in July 2003, and the layoffs started in April with closure announced in May 2003.

That's what you get for believing what was written on the twu Brady Theater coffin was actually true.

 

[skippy525]

. Non-system protected employees is 9/24/08.

Where do you find that the new system protection date is 9/24/08. Just curious wher you found that information.

 

[AA Tulsa Mechanic]

Where do you find that the new system protection date is 9/24/08. Just curious wher you found that information.

Article 42 - Job Security page 208. And it is September 24th, 1998, sorry I typed it wrong......fat fingers.

 

[TWU informer]

That's what you get for believing what was written on the twu Brady Theater coffin was actually true.

I was thinking today that if AA shuts down any maintenance base, we should get a coffin on trailer, make some foam gravestones and drive around with t-shirts the have the slogan...

"What Goes Around - Comes Around"

...printed on them. And a Bull Horn screaming like banshees and children of the corn.

At least AMFA took a stand for what was right and attempted to stop the erosion of the profession. While the TWU has taken voluntary "without further ratification" industry leading concessions only to delay that which has happened elsewhere. Creating a steam roller of concessions and corporate welfare and now admiting to being in bed with management and even becoming business partners participating in the raping and pilferaging of the American worker.

YEAH! "We saved 13,000 jobs and ALL THREE Maintenance Bases" was the cry of "CIO", the ring leader of TEAAM TWU and the master coffin decorator himself.

Now look at us, one BBQ Sandwhich, and 5 years later, stonewalled in negotations with headcounts going down through attrition for all 5 years and now to top that more getting ready to hit the street.

Not to mention the "without further ratification" guru being praised by the TWU International and given appointment to the highest office of the so-callled labor union organization.

WOW! I need some medication or the men in black need to come by and erase my memory with one of those cool pens they wave around.

This is BS in the first degree, and should be criminal.

 

[AA Tulsa Mechanic]

So nobody has really addressed this article 42.2 LINE #1 which reads.

RIF FOR SYSTEM PROTECTED EMPLOYEE

A SYSTEM PROTECTED EMPLOYEE CAN DISPLACE A NON-PROTECTED EMPLOYEE AT ANOTHER STATION. A SYSTEM PROTECTED EMPLOYEE CANNOT DISPLACE ANOTHER SYSTEM PROTECTED EMPLOYEE AT ANOTHER STATION.

What is the red text referring to exactly, anyone?

 

[TWU informer]

So nobody has really addressed this article 42.2 LINE #1 which reads.

RIF FOR SYSTEM PROTECTED EMPLOYEE

A SYSTEM PROTECTED EMPLOYEE CAN DISPLACE A NON-PROTECTED EMPLOYEE AT ANOTHER STATION. A SYSTEM PROTECTED EMPLOYEE CANNOT DISPLACE ANOTHER SYSTEM PROTECTED EMPLOYEE AT ANOTHER STATION.

What is the red text referring to exactly, anyone?

Why don;t you go down to the union hall for a union meeting and get the stooges that negotiated that language and have access to the secret letters of agreement to give you the answer?

Or have you already been there and not told what you wanted to hear?

 

[RDU Jetblast]

So nobody has really addressed this article 42.2 LINE #1 which reads.

RIF FOR SYSTEM PROTECTED EMPLOYEE

A SYSTEM PROTECTED EMPLOYEE CAN DISPLACE A NON-PROTECTED EMPLOYEE AT ANOTHER STATION. A SYSTEM PROTECTED EMPLOYEE CANNOT DISPLACE ANOTHER SYSTEM PROTECTED EMPLOYEE AT ANOTHER STATION.

What is the red text referring to exactly, anyone?

I don't work for AA nor am I a lawyer but what it says is crystal clear.

I'd be worried about what it doesn't say unless it's covered elswhere.

What that clause does not say is (but is clearly implied) that a system protected employee CAN ONLY be displaced only by another system protected employee from the same station.