Question re Frontier charter for U of Wyoming football team

[CavFan]

I noticed on a flight tracking site that the U of Wyoming football team (+ others I'm sure) flew back to Laramie yesterday on a Frontier A-319 out of RIC. Frontier serves neither RIC or the airport closest to where Wyoming played, Charlottesville, VA (served by CHO). CHO has a 6,000' runway, enough for an A-319. In fact, Piedmont used to serve CHO with 737s and I've heard of 757s landing there (charter). I was curious as to why the charter customer had to go to an airport 70 miles further away when Frontier doesn't even fly a regular route there. Any Frontier employees out there who know?

 

[phllax]

My guess would be that CHO currently doesn't have some or all of the necessary equipment to service an Airbus, and RIC does.

 

[mrfish3726]

My guess would be that CHO currently doesn't have some or all of the necessary equipment to service an Airbus, and RIC does.

First off for those of you who missed me, I'M BACK.

Phllax,

Charters are just what they are! The folks who charter the flight pay for all the services and anything above and beyond (If fuel cost $5.00 a gallon they have to pay that cost ect ect). If you watched your flight trax program you can also see that F9 dead heads those flights back empty and we don't lose a dime. Charters are a great source of revenue. Now you know why Frontier is DENVERS HOME TOWN AIRLINE for all the major sports teams and college teams alike.

 

[Kev3188]

You didn't answer the question, Fishy....

Why RIC and not CHO?

 

[won'tflyUSAIRWAYS]

It does seem strange. An analogy would be if a team like UCLA came to play Uconn, why would a charter airline make the UCLA team fly back to the LA area out of JFK or EWR instead of BDL? Although CHO no longer has a jetway (that left once Piedmont was taken over and US replaced the 737 service with turboprops), I'm sure they have stairs and fuel might even cost less than RIC. Landing fees too. Their 6,000' runway can definitely accomodate an A319. As the OP pointed out, Frontier doesn't serve either RIC or CHO, so that's not a factor. Lastly, CHO is about 80 miles closer to LAR, so that alone would save 160 miles worth of flying. I wonder if the Wyoming team (which lost to UVA btw...good game) had to fly into RIC as well.

 

[jimntx]

Maybe the wife of the coach or University president had some shopping to do in RIC during the game. What difference does it make?

I worked a Super Bowl charter where a company had their guests meet in ORD--the company had no major offices in Chicago--we then flew them to JAX.

Did any of you consider that maybe the University requested RIC? After all, I'm sure this is not the University's first rodeo. If they wanted the closest airport, they probably know that CHO is closer than RIC.

 

[won'tflyUSAIRWAYS]

Maybe the wife of the coach or University president had some shopping to do in RIC during the game.

Ahhh, we now know the reason! Actually, I hear that Frontier runs several charters a year for Laramie, WY folks who have heard about the great shopping opportunities in Richmond, VA. Their savings pay for their airfare. If the OP were the least bit observant, he would have noticed all the folks wearing cowboy boots at the new mall in Short Pump. 😀

Seriously, as a side issue, since the football team and coaches, etc., for any college road game amount to only 40-50 folks, who fills the remaining seats on these charters and do they pay? Like maybe students, alumni, etc. Or does this vary depending on the college? I'd imagine there are some FAs out there who'd be knowledgeable about this. Or perhaps some who work for various airline's charter sales offices. Are charters one of the few profit-making ops of airlines (in addition to cargo, I'd imagine)?

 

[jimntx]

[quote name='won'tflyUSAIRWAYS' post='414266' date='Sep 11 2006, 09:43 AM']Seriously, as a side issue, since the football team and coaches, etc., for any college road game amount to only 40-50 folks, who fills the remaining seats on these charters and do they pay? Like maybe students, alumni, etc. Or does this vary depending on the college? I'd imagine there are some FAs out there who'd be knowledgeable about this. Or perhaps some who work for various airline's charter sales offices. Are charters one of the few profit-making ops of airlines (in addition to cargo, I'd imagine)?[/quote]

First off, you must not know that college football is BIG business today. You are assuming that they are taking only the starting 11 plus some back up. The traveling squad for most Division 1-A teams today is more like 50-70 players, plus coaches (this is probably another 6-10 people), trainers, equipment managers, team physicians and other medical personnel, college media personnel (not only to report back on the game, but people to provide the local announcers with background info--particularly if the game is televised); the cheerleaders and their support staff usually travel with the team as well (and in this day and age with these giant cheering squads, that's at least 20 people).

On those occasions where there are empty seats left over, wives of coaches, college officials, big-time contributors to the college, and/or Trustee Board members usually go along. These people travel for free. There is no difference in the cost of the charter whether the seats go empty or not. And, there's no conflict of interest. It's not a problem if the sports program gives a bigwig a gift, unlike the other way around.

BTW, I've forwarded your bad-mouth on RIC shopping to the Chamber of Commerce. :angry:

 

[won'tflyUSAIRWAYS]

First off, you must not know that college football is BIG business today. You are assuming that they are taking only the starting 11 plus some back up.

Actually I did realize it's big business and figured they would have to fill up those seats with someone besides players/coaches, which I did probably underestimate at 50 or less. Otherwise, they could charter an RJ and save money.

BTW, I've forwarded your bad-mouth on RIC shopping to the Chamber of Commerce. :angry:

Richmond shopping is just fine...just not good enough for the U of Wyoming's president's wife to have Frontier fly to RIC, have the players and many others have to travel an extra hour each way on a bus to get to the UVA campus. 😛

Or the good folks in Laramie, WY charter a flight to RIC to grab up the bargains at the mall in Short Pump (or even the outlets in Williamsburg). 😛

As the OP suggested, it does seem kind of weird for Frontier to charter the team plane into (?) and out of RIC vs CHO. Must be a logical reason in there somewhere, but it sure isn't readily apparent since Frontier doesn't normally fly into either city.

The scheduling folks at Frontier (or any airline) must face some interesting challenges in scheduling their equipment for charters. In the Wyoming example, I'll bet that plane didn't fly nonstop into RIC from Laramie, sit there for a day or two, and then fly nonstop back to Laramie. Or even fly empty back from RIC or empty into RIC for the return on Saturday after the game. That just doesn't make economic sense.To keep this topic more relevent to this forum, do FAs and pilots bid separately on charters vs scheduled flights, are charters bid by more senior employees because they're more desirable, or is it just the opposite? I wouldn't be surprised if it varies quite a bit from one carrier to another. Perhaps some carriers don't even do charters.

 

[jimntx]

The scheduling folks at Frontier (or any airline) must face some interesting challenges in scheduling their equipment for charters. In the Wyoming example, I'll bet that plane didn't fly nonstop into RIC from Laramie, sit there for a day or two, and then fly nonstop back to Laramie. Or even fly empty back from RIC or empty into RIC for the return on Saturday after the game. That just doesn't make economic sense.

You would lose that bet. The customer pays for whatever is necessary. We do a lot of charters at AA that involve the crew ferrying an empty plane to a pickup point; fly the passengers to the destination point; then the crew ferries the empty plane back to base. The customer pays for all 3 legs even though they only flew on one of them.

If the customer wants the a/c to stay at the destination for a day or a week, the customer is also charged for the hotel bills for the crew to sit around.

At AA, depends upon the charter. A lot of the military charters go very senior and to a select group of flight attendants determined by management to be worthy of working them. Military charters are easy. Soldiers do what they are asked to do with no back talk or arguments that "it fit in the overhead bin on my last flight." 😛

Some are staffed by certain f/as at customer request. For instance, Dallas Cowboy charters are only done by certain flight attendants requested by the Cowboys. (Can you say, tall and blond?)

On rare occasions, charters drop into what we call Open Time and are available to any flight attendant who is qualified on the equipment. That's how I got a Super Bowl charter at my minuscule seniority.

 

[mga707]

[quote name='won'tflyUSAIRWAYS' post='414326' date='Sep 11 2006, 11:03 AM']I'll bet that plane didn't fly nonstop into RIC from Laramie, sit there for a day or two, and then fly nonstop back to Laramie.[/quote]

That A319 didn't fly either to or from Laramie! Laramie's airport has never handled anything bigger than the CV-340s/580s of the old, REAL Frontier! (Sorry, Fish, but for me "Frontier" will always mean 'Sunliner' Convairs and 'Arrow Jet' 727s/737s rather than 'buses with animals on the tails)
I'm sure they left from/returned to Cheyenne, which is less than an hour's drive east of Laramie on I-80, and has a nice, vastly underutilized airport that has a runway long enough for a 747, let alone a 319!

 

[C54Capt]

I'm sure they left from/returned to Cheyenne, which is less than an hour's drive east of Laramie on I-80, and has a nice, vastly underutilized airport that has a runway long enough for a 747, let alone a 319!

The A-319 goes into Laramie all the time. They use airstairs.

 

[UALDC767]

I noticed on a flight tracking site that the U of Wyoming football team (+ others I'm sure) flew back to Laramie yesterday on a Frontier A-319 out of RIC. Frontier serves neither RIC or the airport closest to where Wyoming played, Charlottesville, VA (served by CHO). CHO has a 6,000' runway, enough for an A-319. In fact, Piedmont used to serve CHO with 737s and I've heard of 757s landing there (charter). I was curious as to why the charter customer had to go to an airport 70 miles further away when Frontier doesn't even fly a regular route there. Any Frontier employees out there who know?

As an extra thought, while CHO runway can handle a 319, it might not be long enough to get a flight out to LAR without some big weight restrictions. And since this is a football charter, they would use actual weights, not the FAA average, of the players/equipment. So weight and balance factors in. (plus having to pay to get the performance data for an airport they dont fly into or ever plan to)

Or even possibly that CHO isnt on the approved OPS SPECS list of airpoorts for Frontier to fly too while RIC is. (even though the dont fly to either, RIC probably is an approved alternate for the DCA/BWI flights) Just because an airport has a long enough runway doesnt mean an airline can fly there (in an emergency yes, but not for normal ops)

My 2 cents.

DC

 

[mga707]

The A-319 goes into Laramie all the time. They use airstairs.

Thanks. didn't think the runway would be long enough, especially for a long haul, since LAR is over 7100' in elevation.