Question: Rj History

[airlineorphan]

Hi folks,

I'm doing a little research project on the history of restructuring in the airline industry. Perhaps some of you can help me out on a couple questions:

When and where were the first small/regional jets introduced in the U.S?

Were they introduced at stand-alone commuter carriers, mainline carriers, or initially at subsidiary prop and turboprop carriers?

After they were introduced, how quickly did they spread at competing carriers?

Did the lower tier wage derive from pay formulas about a/c size in pilot contract language or did it derive more from the history of where the small/regional jets were initially used (i.e., starting out at a lower wage commuter carrier).

Thanks in advance for any insight you can share.

In solidarity,
Airlineorphan

 

[N628AU]

I want to say Comair was the first to fly the new generation of regional jets (the CRJ), about a decade ago. Regional jet flying can be traced in its history to aircraft like the DC9-10 and BAC111.

 

[airlineorphan]

Thanks N628AU,

It appears that the current generation of RJ's made their appearance in 92 in Europe and then in 93 in the U.S.

If they made their first appearances at Comair in the U.S., then that would explain SOME of the history of a lower tier wage scale.

But it seems there is a lot more to the history, especially with the history of F28 and F100 use by mainline carriers as well as the DC9's and such.


Here's an additional question:

On a CASM basis, are RJ's more or less fuel efficient than mainline jets? (Say, an EMB145 compared to an A320). Or are all of the admonitions of greater fuel efficiency a comparison between the fuel CASM of an EMB145 and, say, a Dash-8?

Thanks again!

In solidarity,
-Airlineorphan

 

[ITRADE]

I want to say Comair was the first to fly the new generation of regional jets (the CRJ), about a decade ago. Regional jet flying can be traced in its history to aircraft like the DC9-10 and BAC111.

Comair was the first U.S. receipent of a CRJ - April of 1993. They took delivery of about 9 or 10 that year. CRJs were then added by Skywest in 1994. Mesa was the #3 U.S. RJ recepient - but not until 1997. And by that point, Comair was flying about 30 or so of them.

The first ERJ appeared for Continental Express in December 1996. Eagle did not start taking delivery until Feb. 1998.

Now, if you want to talk OLD small-jets, go back to the BAC 111s and F-28s. US and Horizon were the last two to dispose of them.

 

[airlineorphan]

Thanks ITRADE,

That's extremely helpful. If you can point me to sources to dig further, I'd also find that really useful. You always seem to have your finger on this sort of information.

I am interested in the earlier wave of RJ's like the F28's and BAC111's, so any information on their advent would also be appreciated.

Again, thanks,
-Airlineorphan

 

[ITRADE]

Here's an additional question:

On a CASM basis, are RJ's more or less fuel efficient than mainline jets? (Say, an EMB145 compared to an A320). Or are all of the admonitions of greater fuel efficiency a comparison between the fuel CASM of an EMB145 and, say, a Dash-8?

Thanks again!

In solidarity,
-Airlineorphan

CASM - RJs are less efficient - but become more efficient as the number of seats increase.

My old Aviation Daily data (Dec. 02) shows as follows:

CASM ERJ 140 (AE) - 7.8
CASM CRJ 200 (ASA) - 6.5
CASM CRJ 700 (AE) - 5.7

CASM A319 (US) - 5.7
CASM A319 (NW) - 3.6
CASM MD80 (AA) - 5.9

Fuel burn rates (gal./hr.)
ERJ 140 (AE) - 358
CRJ 200 (ASA) - 359
CRJ 700 (AE) - 453

A319 (US) - 746
A319 (NW) - 731
MD80 (AA) - 953

 

[ITRADE]

I don't have firm dates for you on the F-28.

Piedmont had them going back to at least 1984.

Empire had them back as far as the late 1970s.

Here's a shot of a F-28 at ROA courtesy of Piedmont.

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/003501/M/

Anyhow, Braniff's BAC111s go back at least 1964. Mohawk's to at least 1965/66.

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/201652/M/

 

[airlineorphan]

Thanks again, ITRADE,

So, if the BAC111 was placed at Braniff and Mohawk, and the F28's at Piedmont and Empire, respectively, then I would assume that (aside from pilot wage formulas) the wages for employees working on and around them were not at a lower tier than other employees at the respective companies.

I think the fuel CASM is a pretty interesting bit of information. True, larger RJ's (like jumbo-shrimp or fresh-frozen ) will probably improve that fuel CASM, but the larger the RJ's the less useful they will be to finely tuning capacity utilization of a/c. If we set aside management's incentive to take advantage of lower tier wages, then isn't this ability to finely tune capacity utilization to local markets the primary advantage of small jets? Going to larger and larger small jets would seem to defeat that purpose.

What do you think?

-Airlineorphan

 

[airlineorphan]

Okay, according to the Duxford Aviation Society in Britain, "The BAC 1-11 was the first short haul jet airliner and it entered service in April 1965." It was first used by BEA, which later became part of British Airways. Duxford Aviation Society page


BTW, I did find a fairly good overview history at The Regional Air Service Intitiave site


But I continue to be very curious about the contradiction between using larger RJ's when fine-tuning capacity utilization to market demand was supposed to be part of the point of RJ's. Comments?

Hmmmmmmm.......
-Airlineorphan

 

[Beckles]

Don't forget the British Aerospace 146 (later evolved into the Avro RJ series).

 

[AtlanticBeach]

Altair Airlines went from an all-prop fleet to the F28 in 1982. Honest to goodness, they served shrimp cocktails on all of their jet flights for the first few months.

 

[AOG-N-IT]

Altair Airlines went from an all-prop fleet to the F28 in 1982. Honest to goodness, they served shrimp cocktails on all of their jet flights for the first few months.

I flew Altair on an F-28 in January of 1981 from CLT to RIC...and the only shrimp on that flight was the runt sitting in the row across from me. (LOL)

That flight was one of the most frightning I can recall. The Captain had to make a very violent evasive manuever to avoid a general aviation Acft in route to Byrd Field.

I was returning to Ft. Lee Va. to complete the US Army Parachute Rigger course...and that was one commercial flight where I wish I had been wearing a parachute..and ready to use it. No slight on the Altair crew intended.

Mention was made of Braniff and the BAC-1-11...American was also a BAC operator during that era too.

 

[airlineorphan]

Thanks for everyone's comments. It's all very helpful.

Here's another question for folks: It's my impression that the kinds of affiliations and constellations of mainline and RJ/commuter/turboprop arrangements of subsidiaries and codeshares and subcontracts (like the 473 or so different carriers under US Airways Group ) was something that really didn't take off until airlines were feeling the competitive pressures that arose after deregulation.

Am I on target here? What's your take on the timeframe of that seachange in the industry?

In solidarity,
Airlineorphan

 

[diogenes]

When PI accepted the F28's, mainline employees worked them at mainline wages. The only pay adjustment was for ALPA, due to the smaller size. PI did NOT attempt to meld F28's into Henson. Henson became a wholly owned subsidiary, with prop planes and lower wages for all involved.

The F28s were correctly deployed. Thin routes, proving runs, etc. Then, the Florida Shuttle - genius!

U inherited the F28's AND the lower ALPA payscale. The FL Shuttle was promptly shuttered, and the F28's disposed of.

The payscales were STILL on the books when U started hollering RJ's. U could have purchased a zillion of them, and ALPA, along with the rest of us, would have had no choice but to work them.

In 1999, Dave Siegel was quoted in Plane Business to the effect Rj's were "scopebusters."

In my view, the plan at U, going back to at least 1998, was to use the Airbii's and RJ's to bust the unions via vendoring - 9/11 simply accelerated the plan.

 

[AOG-N-IT]

Another Acft comes to mind as well. The "Sud Aviation" ( Aerosptiale) Carvelle.

UA deployed these Acft in the very early 60's (1st delivery in May of 1961). The Caravelle depending on it's variant (Dash Number) could go from 90 to 104 passengers.

Douglas Aircraft (later McDonnell Douglas) was approached to be the US Broker for SUD Aviation and the Caravelle series...but declined when Donald W. Douglas Sr. elected to start the competing DC-9-10 Series program himself.

The start up costs of the DC-9 program..and the continuation of the DC-8 program and it's aggressive evolution was costly but sucessfull for DAC...but financing the programs at the time were difficult. This lead to the 1967 merger with McDonnell ..whose only dealings were with Military contracts.

The McDonnell influence brought the needed funding during peak profit times of the Vietnam war...but thier lack of knowledge in dealing with airline customers...eventually led to it's downfall...and the need to merge with Boeing