Questions For Union Members

[WingNaPrayer]

I'll apologize up front if this is an issue that has been discussed before but an overheard conversation last night has my curiosity running high, and admittedly I'm too lazy to search these forums to see if the answer is already there.

So, that being said...

What are a union member's rights when their union isn't working? What can be done by the membership if the majority is unhappy with the way their union is representing them?

Can the membership force a vote to disband the union? Abandon the contracts? Seek alternate affiliation and representation?

I ask because I heard a conversation where one airline employee said they wished they were part of XYZ union instead of the one they have, and the other replying that they are stuck, there is no way out of the existing union without quitting the job.

Don't most union bylaws carry a stipulation for the membership for when they no longer want a specific union to represent them? Isn't the membership able to call a vote of confidence/no confidence of sorts and replace their boards and elected chairs?

Or does all this vary from union to union? I've seen lots of union bashing and bitching on here but I've never seen anyone propose an ousting of their leadership in favor of new blood or even if it was possible to do so.

Anyone have any insights in this area? I promise, I'm not looking to pick or start any in-fighting, I'm genuinely curious as to just how much control members have over their own respective unions.

Thanks for any input anyone has to offer!

 

[eolesen]

Two options... and neither one of them is in the union bylaws -- they're federal statutes.

1) bring in another union and try to have a representation election. It's been succesfully done at several other carriers, but you've got to find a non-AFL/CIO union to do it because there's a no-raid policy between AFL/CIO affiliated unions.

2) The membership can file for a decertification vote, and kick out the union on property. The risk in that is that there's no longer a contract to protect/handcuff you, although I suspect the company would probably gladly keep the same general workrules and conditions in place just to be rid of the union. I don't believe you can call for a new representation vote for 12 months following a decertification.

Different unions have different constitutions. The independent unions seem to have more control over their own destiny, in that they can actually have regime changes. The TWU, ALPA, IAM, CWA, and IBT don't have that, since there's a layer of "management" over them called the international.

 

[Wretched Wrench]

..................I suspect the company would probably gladly keep the same general workrules and conditions in place just to be rid of the union.

Disagree for three reasons:

1. Generally, we all prefer "a devil we know to one we don't know." AA is likely to be like the rest of the world. I have a friend who is an exec at a large company. He says their union (IBT) is better than no union, because he knows who he is dealing with and how to work with them. He says the union makes his job easier most of the time. There is mutual respect and a commont goal most of the time. The only time there is really an issue is at contract time.

2. Specifically, AA would be loathe to replace their tame union with any other union, and would particularly dislike a bunch of inexperienced firebrands or an established union that would rock the boat trying to make a name for itself. "Business As Usual" is fine with them.

3. Specifically, again, getting rid of the TWU and having no union would gain them nothing, as they get what they want already, between dictating terms and letters of agreement. In fact, the TWU facilitates the company getting its way.

 

[eolesen]

Well, that might be the case with the TWU, but the question was asked in generic terms, and that's how I'm framing the answer.

Honestly, if the TWU or any other union at AMR were decertified tomorrow, there's an argument to be made that the company might actually improve things, if for no other reason than to keep the union out.

To some degree, that's happened with the agents. Management keeps them happy enough that they're not rushing out to sign representation cards. Same thing at Jetblue, Delta, and other carriers who have large unrepresented workgroups.

 

[proAMT]

I'll apologize up front if this is an issue that has been discussed before but an overheard conversation last night has my curiosity running high, and admittedly I'm too lazy to search these forums to see if the answer is already there.

So, that being said...

What are a union member's rights when their union isn't working? What can be done by the membership if the majority is unhappy with the way their union is representing them?

Can the membership force a vote to disband the union? Abandon the contracts? Seek alternate affiliation and representation?

I ask because I heard a conversation where one airline employee said they wished they were part of XYZ union instead of the one they have, and the other replying that they are stuck, there is no way out of the existing union without quitting the job.

Don't most union bylaws carry a stipulation for the membership for when they no longer want a specific union to represent them? Isn't the membership able to call a vote of confidence/no confidence of sorts and replace their boards and elected chairs?

Or does all this vary from union to union? I've seen lots of union bashing and bitching on here but I've never seen anyone propose an ousting of their leadership in favor of new blood or even if it was possible to do so.

Anyone have any insights in this area? I promise, I'm not looking to pick or start any in-fighting, I'm genuinely curious as to just how much control members have over their own respective unions.

Thanks for any input anyone has to offer!

The only control the members have over there union is at election time. In Tulsa three members who were attempting to change the leadership have been kicked off the ballot.
Ck out...

http://www.change514.com and http://unionproud74055.tripod.com

and you'll see that already this year attempts have been made to unseat an unpopular incumbent slate.

Our hope is that some of the candidates that back change and have not been kicked off the ballot this year are elected. I would not dismiss election rigging though. The incumbents are very desperate and will do anything to keep their position and advance an agenda the membership does not support. If there was a confidence vote tomorrow the TWU would lose bad.

A few years ago a majority of mechanics at AA attempted to replace the TWU and between the efforts of the TWU, AA, and the US government working together the election was denied.

 

[Wretched Wrench]

I would not dismiss election rigging though.

How is the TUL election committee selected? Ours is elected by the membership.

The incumbents are very desperate and will do anything to keep their position.

Yes. That is a Universal Truth.

If there was a confidence vote tomorrow the TWU would lose bad.

Not sure on that. AA/TWU inc did a pretty good job last time. How much has changed?

 

[Bob Owens]

Not sure on that. AA/TWU inc did a pretty good job last time. How much has changed?

The last time there was a confidence vote for the TWU at AA was 1946.

If there was a vote the TWU would lose, TWU INtnl rep Bobby Gless even testified to that under oath.