Reality Check

[airlineorphan]

uza intones paraphrazically (if that is a word!):

People are quick to say no more, but offer no solution other than say, I already gave twice.....

Ummm.... pilots "gave" thrice...... When the labor-friendly management "team" cleaned up their balance sheets by using the DBP as a squeegie....

Anyway, how 'bout them NONLABOR COSTS, uza? Can't get anymore blood out of your employees. The vein is dry.

-Airlineorphan

 

[pitguy]

uza states "People are quick to say no more, but offer no solution other ".

Is it my job to find a plan. Why is management paid millions to do that? They need to come up with a real plan.



uza states "pitbull is quick to slam management".

If management started to do their job and not lie to everyone then that probably would not happen.



uza states "Many are saying they are preparing but yet they are still here, what are you waiting for?"

Why are the so valuable management team still here? What are they waiting for.



Concessions have never saved an airline. Why do you think the next round would save this place? It just prolongs the agony. Frankly many are ready to go out the door. Hence recently in PIT 75 Mechanics were given pink slips. Very few opted to transfer to other stations. They chose the street instead.

 

[Mike W]

UZA,
The IAM has met with this management a number of times in the past year to discuss ways of doing things more efficiently but until recently US Airways has chosen not to respond. Why do cost savings resulting from working more efficiently seem to carry less weight with this management than the same dollar amount brought about by wage and benefit concessions?

 

[MarkMyWords]

People are quick to say no more, but offer no solution other than say, I already gave twice and it’s my choice not to give again.

I am really only going to address this point for now......

This is where you are totally off base. The IAM recently meet with the company to discuss cost savings of 80-100 million dollars a year. Is this your idea of the IAM complaining about concessions and not offering solutions?

Many posters on here have made some awesome suggestions to help save the company money and they have fallen on deaf ears.

My suggestion - years ago - was to roll the PHL hub. What is in the contracts that prohibit this? I have asked several times for anyone to offer me reasons why the rolling hub concept would not work in PHL and have had only one response about by de-banking PHL you could open yourself to more competition. That being said, if we utilized all of our asstes - employees, facilities and aircraft - to their maximum then we would be able to compete much more effectively. Add to that the right fare structure and the benefits that we offer and LCC's don't and would could keep competition OUT of PHL.

AOG has had many suggestions on things that can be done to save the company millions - but it falls on deaf ears.

Yes, there is a lot of "venting" that goes on in these forums, but there are also a great deal of suggestions that need to be looked at. For the IAM to come to the company with 80-100 million dollars in cost savings ideas, WHILE THEIR CONTRACT IS IN CONSTANT VIOLATION, proves that the realize there is a problem and will participate, but not until all other avenues have been exhausted.


Again, if the company was taking full advantage of all of the benefits of the ALREADY SIGNED CONTRACTS, were treated with dignity and respect and had their CBA's followed and not violated, then I think you would find the employee groups much more receptive to opening additional discussions.

Answer this if you will: What are the items in the contracts that are holding us back from becoming more productive? Why can't some of the ideas that the IAM says will generate saving be implimented? Why are the employees the first thing the company looks to for cost savings, versus taking advantage of what they wanted in rounds 1 and 2? No more hot air and chest thumping.....stick to facts and answer the questions.

 

[usfliboi]

Art, This management has given back as far as pay cuts etc. All though a million may not be much to a billionare, they have given and this goes deeper than just US and the airline industry, its this countries corporate culture. Sad but true. Im a usairways employee, and have been over 16 years. Ive seen it all with this company . I know what management has and has not done. I still have faith in Dave S. I see past the "my" union rhetoric as well as middle managements. Our problem at this company runs deep and it all started when PIEDMONT agreed to be bought by them. When you try to fix something that isnt broke, or you buy something thinking it will make u money because it has already, then you have a major problem. Three different companies with three different corporate cultures all rolled into one, made for a major mistake.When "we " were bought by Us in the late eighties, i recall being called by future sced the night before the "official" intergration date. At piedmont we didnt have a choice of trips per se, basically you were responsible for finding someone who want ed your trip if you didnt want it. The sced asked ," what u looking to do tomorrow?" I answered in shock , HUH? The difference is how we were managed or mis managed rather, was huge. My pay shot up dramatically as well as most piedmont and psa employees. We didnt have "Cleaners" Station agents as well as flight atts cleaned the aircraft,at a fouth of the cost. You see where im going? I could go on and on and on with many many examples of down right mis management. Here we are today with few lessons learned. Still struggling , still fighting the fight. Still trying to make the unions today understand that those days are gone forever. This is why you see the outrage. This is why you see the passion and disgust. I am a member of the afa but i know when reality has set in . Some call it "union busting" In my humble opinion, its called reality. Usairways will survive and the employees here will work for less, that includes myself. Reality dictates that we have no control over this. Bk is a viable option for this airline yet again. Reality says there will be no Mr MIss nice guy in that court again. All of this is reality , Plain and simple.! Btw Uza, since i got a nod of agreement, you gotta management position up there avl ,if you are in ccy?

 

[etops1]

this guy/girl uza is not managent. trust me <_<

 

[local 12 proud]

the major's keep trying to compare thier cost to lcc's yet they continue operating as they always have, the cuts have to start ftom the TOP and roll down. i believe in one post uza alluded to the fact of how many mechanics southwest has compared to usair, well what about non labor employess like superviser's and managers and so on, yes the fat needs to be cut but it starts at the TOP!

 

[Bob Owens]

Southwest has around 4.3 mechanics per aircraft and USAirWays has around 12. Southwest has 355 a/c USAirWays has 279 a/c. Southwest is making money and USAirWays is losing money. U’s mechanics are not taking any more, and it appears neither are the other unions. So where oh where are all the savings going to come from? If all of management worked for free, it would not make a dent. So all you people out there that are refusing to budge one inch, what do you think will happen? Do you believe a united stand against more cuts will save the day? If so, how? Forgetting all your hatred and anger for one minute, answer these questions honestly and without the bitterness use rationality and reasoning. This could be your last stand against the evil ones, is it worth it? If so, how, why, do you benefit from a failed company? Even the retirees are concerned about this one. If you’re hoping for a last minute management team change, you’re shooting craps.

Where did you get your numbers of mechanics vs aircraft?

SWA has started looking into doing more maint in house. Just because SWA only has 4 mechanics per aircraft that does not mean that their 4 mechanics do the work of USAIRs 12 mechanics.

It may simply mean that SWA pays money to to other companies that provide the equivelent of the other 7 mechanics, and those companies no doubt make a profit off the sale of that labor.

It may also relate to the fact that USAIR has all those different fleet types and serve a different market.

There are several advantages to having work done in house, and if you have the facilities in place and paid for, giving that work, and the money that goes with it to another company is simply an admission of bad management. If USAIR can pay another company to do work that they have the facilities to do and that other company can make a profit off that work then USAIR is doing it wrong. The higher wages of doing it in house should offset the profit margin plus the company should enjoy greater quality and be able to scedule the work around their operation.

One of the factors that the bean counters often miss is the cost of shoddy maint thats done by someone who is making a profit off turning the airplane around vs someone who is going to have to rely on this for dependable service. I guess when enough airplanes do like that one in the Carolinas last year the airlines will reexamine if they really save any money that way.

By your own admission USAIRs workers are making less that SWA. So obviously lower wages is not going to help. If the company succeeds in lowering the ratio and closing all their overhaul are they going to bring wages and benifits back up to SWA rates? If not, then why not?

The fact is that management is scamming the workers. They are lowering the wages with the promise of saving jobs, after a few rounds of that, then they go for the jobs anyway.

Maybe they just should have said no two years ago, let the place shut down if things were truly that bad, then get a job with SWA as they fill the void. It seems that all their concessions are doing is providing them a lower standard of living until they go under anyway. Better to let it die quick and start over sooner than later. As long as a sick carrier is in place no new jobs will be created at the healthy carriers.

 

[ClueByFour]

I still have faith in Dave S.

Can I interest you in a bridge in the PIT area? Slightly used, in good condition....

 

[uza]

Where did you get your numbers of mechanics vs aircraft?

You are wrong. Look it up before posting misinformation.

LUV has 1762 less mechanics with 76 more a/c and that is just the mechanics group. If U had the same ratio then you would make some sense, but it's slanted, canted, twisted, distorted, out of balance and why we are in trouble. We either tweak our business or we go away.


You comment: One of the factors that the bean counters often miss is the cost of shoddy maint.... You MBA is failing you, no problem in maintenance with LUV.

I was wondering when I would hear from you.

 

[local 12 proud]

and bob i might add at american they already have the lowest paid mechanics on average of all the majors and still cant squeek out a profit, was labor getting the credit when they were making billions? NO but as soon as the bottom falls out its all labors fault. :down:

 

[ClueByFour]

Usfliboi is correct. For example, pitbull is quick to slam management with the legendary tirades of rage when confronted on these boards or on the phone but offers no reasonable solutions.

You say it’s this teams fault entirely, yes I heard you, so how does pointing figures change anything?

Unless Mr. Bronner has a big change of heart very soon, this team is staying and everyone will need to deal with that fact, it’s just reality.

You say you don’t like this team’s attitude and therefore you refuse to deal with them.
People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them.

Solutions have been offered. In this very thread, no less. I see that you did not address those directly. I don't think you will.

Ultimately, it looks as if US labor groups have concluded that the current management team simply lacks the acumen to save the airline, further concessions or no further concessions. If the assumption is that the airline is going to die either way, the prudent thing to do is to take a stand, and hope that Bronner sees the light before little Dave completely trashes his investment.

Nobody wants to work for/with a loser. Seigel, Baldanza, Cohen, all of the current crop in CCY are losers. Their first two plans failed miserably. The sprint thru Chapter 11 was a mistake. Operational mistakes abound, and they are content to make war on their unions out of spite (see the AFA voluntary furlough debacle, Airbus heavy, PIT baggage system, etc) even when it costs more money than could ever be saved.

This crew is clueless. Very few people will voluntarily jump to their own death. Hopefully, Bronner figures this out.

I'm a customer, and the current management has also pissed me off. This is (for an airline as close to the brink as US) just as bad as pissing off your employees, as you basically "bite the hand that feeds you." The brain trust in CCY does it regularly.

Just as I won't give my money to a company whose leadership does not value my business, I suspect the unions won't give concessions to a leadership team who has demonstrated that they can not turn the airline around, even if labor worked for free.

Tangentally, the chicken must come before the egg. This business of "give us concessions and then we'll show you the plan" is simply bogus. Nobody buys a car, unseen. You don't buy a house, unseen. The prudent individual does not sacrafice their career with the return unseen, either.

 

[Bob Owens]

Where did you get your numbers of mechanics vs aircraft?

You are wrong. Look it up before posting misinformation.

LUV has 1762 less mechanics with 76 more a/c and that is just the mechanics group. If U had the same ratio then you would make some sense, but it's slanted, canted, twisted, distorted, out of balance and why we are in trouble. We either tweak our business or we go away.


You comment: One of the factors that the bean counters often miss is the cost of shoddy maint.... You MBA is failing you, no problem in maintenance with LUV.

I was wondering when I would hear from you.

How can I be wrong when asking a question?

Where did you get your numbers from? I wasnt questioning your accuracy, I legitimately want to know the source.

 

[LongIsland2004]

ART AT ISP: Next time you have a chance to talk to anybody at USairways upper management, see what you can about the future of US at ISP. With US down to 4 R/T a day, they are getting very close to pulling the plug it looks like.

 

[Bob Owens]

ART AT ISP: Next time you have a chance to talk to anybody at USairways upper management, see what you can about the future of US at ISP. With US down to 4 R/T a day, they are getting very close to pulling the plug it looks like.

Rumor is that SWA is looking to expand there. Have you heard anything?