Relax Perimeter Rule at Ronald Reagan

[ClueByFour]

1. US is already talking about parking more 757s. Knowing Tempe, they'll run 2x319 on wingtips instead.

2. This is not going to happen. I have not had a chance to read S.2783 yet, but if it favors incumbents at DCA as much as it sounds like it will, it'll get shot down. If the perimeter goes, someone is going to say that it'll only work if slots go, too.

It appears to be S.2783, but THOMAS does not, as of now, have the text.

 

[FutureUScapt]

Would a full 757 be able to takeoff from DCA and go to the west coast? Doesn't DCA have short runwys? A319/320s might be able to do it though.

TW used to fly a 757 on its DCA-LAX run back in the day, so it can be done. I have no idea if it took any weight penalties though.



I wouldn't hold my breath for US to bring a bunch of 757s though. They've already announced plans to scale the fleet back to 18 and I doubt something like this will make them change their minds. More likely, you will see US keep capacity at relatively artificially low levels by using A319s (320 if it can) so that they can keep fares higher.

Would be nice to see this get passed and perhaps someday, the PANYNJ will come to similar terms regarding LGA (Tempe is currently talking to them about this). It certainly would have the ability to shake-up the transcon market a bit

 

[ClueByFour]

Would be nice to see this get passed and perhaps someday, the PANYNJ will come to similar terms regarding LGA (Tempe is currently talking to them about this). It certainly would have the ability to shake-up the transcon market a bit

They won't do it in DCA (I believe). I also don't think the Port Authority will do it in New York. If they do it for one airline, they'll have to do it for all. Even if it were limited to "hubs," you then get:

US to LAS/PHX.
AA to LAX/SJC.
UA to LAX/SFO.
DL to SJC.
AS to SEA.

and so forth. It's not going to happen.

 

[ggiby]

McCain is flying jetBlue these days.

Somehow... don't believe that.... cuz.... Jet Blue only flies out of IAD...

which.... is 35 miles from capitol hill...

DCA is just a cab ride away...

also... it was MCCain that got the DCA legislation to go west of the mississippi....

 

[ggiby]

I believe DCA prohibits 767s after 9/11.

767 have never been into DCA

runways way to short...

Boeing 37's and 27's still fall into the noise problem and can't take off or land after 9PM ...
i think.... :unsure:

 

[BuffaloJoe]

Somehow... don't believe that.... cuz.... Jet Blue only flies out of IAD...

which.... is 35 miles from capitol hill...

DCA is just a cab ride away...

also... it was MCCain that got the DCA legislation to go west of the mississippi....

OK, I was implying that McCain was using JetBlue for his campaign, last week when he was in PHL he came in on a JetBlue Airbus. Thus not his previous travel for PHX.

 

[nycbusdriver]

They won't do it in DCA (I believe). I also don't think the Port Authority will do it in New York. If they do it for one airline, they'll have to do it for all. Even if it were limited to "hubs," you then get:

US to LAS/PHX.
AA to LAX/SJC.
UA to LAX/SFO.
DL to SJC.
AS to SEA.

and so forth. It's not going to happen.

So what? If those carriers are willing to use (or purchase) existing slots, what does PANYNJ care where those airplanes go?

The original rationale decades ago for the perimeter rule was to force long haul flying to the underutilized, PANYNJ-controlled Newark International and JFK. Well, now those airports are sufficiently well attended that they, too, have some of the worst delay records in the country. So, the original reason for the LGA perimeter rule no longer exists. Now it's more: "We do it that way because that's the way we've always done it."

I have heard from a very well placed source at LGA that US has even offered to use 3 slots for every 2 757 flights to make up the difference in spacing required on takeoff and final approach. The 757 is the only way non-stops from LGA to PHX and LAS will work, and the PANYNJ raised that spacing objection as causing a reduction in hourly movements.

 

[DHG750R]

So what? If those carriers are willing to use (or purchase) existing slots, what does PANYNJ care where those airplanes go?

The original rationale decades ago for the perimeter rule was to force long haul flying to the underutilized, PANYNJ-controlled Newark International and JFK. Well, now those airports are sufficiently well attended that they, too, have some of the worst delay records in the country. So, the original reason for the LGA perimeter rule no longer exists. Now it's more: "We do it that way because that's the way we've always done it."

I have heard from a very well placed source at LGA that US has even offered to use 3 slots for every 2 757 flights to make up the difference in spacing required on takeoff and final approach. The 757 is the only way non-stops from LGA to PHX and LAS will work, and the PANYNJ raised that spacing objection as causing a reduction in hourly movements.

Unfortunately the PANYNJ has managed to add another underutilized airport to it's portfolio-Stewart (SWF) So they would likely not give up anything easily.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Unfortunately the PANYNJ has managed to add another underutilized airport to it's portfolio-Stewart (SWF) So they would likely not give up anything easily.

SWF is a reliever airport. The PANYNJ is smart enough to realize that there is NOTHING they can do to make folks from the NY metro area go there to get on a flight. If that were true, the airlines would actually have more than a handful of flights (most express) to other than their hubs and Florida. If PANYNJ kept their rationale for the LGA perimeter restrictions to force people to SWF, don't you think most of those people would opt for EWR or JFK thereby negating the effectiveness of that rationale?

SWF is a non-event for New Yorkers, just like Sanford is a non-event for people who really want to visit Orlando and Stanstead for London. Reliever fields like SWF allow airlines which cannot, or will not, pay the rates or get the slots to serve the convenient airports.

 

[PHL]

OK, I was implying that McCain was using JetBlue for his campaign, last week when he was in PHL he came in on a JetBlue Airbus. Thus not his previous travel for PHX.

Clearly a charter since B6 doesn't serve PHL. Although a great photo op to show a JB plane at PHL. Maybe it was a proving run of sorts in disguise.....