Republicans to United: Screw You!

[Rational Thought]

[blockquote]
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On 12/6/2002 718 PM DB Cooper wrote:

Several of the UA employees who were murdered in cold blood on 9/11 have spouses and relatives also employed at UA. I wonder how those families feel about the US government coldly turning it's back on them after the losses they have suffered.
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[/blockquote]

A completely irrelevant point. If US assistance was based on death of relatives in terrorist attacks, then the US had better setup a new cabinet office for every US citizen who has died in a terrorist attack since 1776. The point of the ATSB wasn't to bailout failed business models. It was to support air transport firms who were financially damaged by 9/11, unable to access the capital markets, AND who had a financially sound business model going into the future. As I said, it wasn't to bailout every damaged industry, even ones who are fatally flawed. What about hotels? Travel companies? Tourist resorts? Why not bailout Kmart (reduced consumer spending post 9/11)? Or maybe Worldcom (less telecom activity)? All that bailouts do is transfer money from the US taxpayer as a whole and give it to employees, equity holders and debt holders. They do not add value. Only transfer value. Why should granny in Idaho get soaked for a flawed business model? Government involvement distorts incentives and creates a moral hazard.

If you like that model, move to Germany where they have higher taxes, lower per capita GDP, slower growth rates (negative for 2002), and a comatose business sector. I'll stay here in the US.

 

[delldude]

hey guy...its real simple logic...maybe you have trouble here:submit a good business plan-get the loan,no good plan no good loan.simple as that.bush screwed you?
[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE]lol[BR]----------------[BR]On 12/6/2002 718 PM DB Cooper wrote:
[P]Several of the UA employees who were murdered in cold blood on 9/11 have spouses and relatives also employed at UA. I wonder how those families feel about the US government coldly turning it's back on them after the losses they have suffered.[/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]

 

[delldude]

hey guy...its real simple logic...maybe you have trouble here:submit a good business plan-get the loan,no good plan no good loan.simple as that.bush screwed you?
[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE]lol[BR]----------------[BR]On 12/6/2002 718 PM DB Cooper wrote:
[P]Several of the UA employees who were murdered in cold blood on 9/11 have spouses and relatives also employed at UA. I wonder how those families feel about the US government coldly turning it's back on them after the losses they have suffered.[/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]

 

[KCFlyer]

Sorry if this sounds heartless, but from everything I've read on this and other boards, there is supposedly a 20-25% overcapacity in the airlne system. Seems to me that it's a no win situation....Let one or two airlines fail and get that capacity reduction and there's pain. Proping up failing airlines while still looking for a 20-25% capacity reduction only results in the same amount of pain at a higher cost.

 

[KCFlyer]

Sorry if this sounds heartless, but from everything I've read on this and other boards, there is supposedly a 20-25% overcapacity in the airlne system. Seems to me that it's a no win situation....Let one or two airlines fail and get that capacity reduction and there's pain. Proping up failing airlines while still looking for a 20-25% capacity reduction only results in the same amount of pain at a higher cost.

 

[Rhino]

Bob Owens (AKA union gadfly)

"During the Regulated era Airfares continually declined and flying become more affordable."

False statement, Bob. Can be proven so in several ways ways. # of pax as % of population. Ticket prices between cities, not even adjusted adjusted for inflation, are at 1973 levels.

You may think you have a clue as an AA mech and union official, but you don't. How much will AMR ask AA unions for in order to compete with UAL now?

 

[Rhino]

Bob Owens (AKA union gadfly)

"During the Regulated era Airfares continually declined and flying become more affordable."

False statement, Bob. Can be proven so in several ways ways. # of pax as % of population. Ticket prices between cities, not even adjusted adjusted for inflation, are at 1973 levels.

You may think you have a clue as an AA mech and union official, but you don't. How much will AMR ask AA unions for in order to compete with UAL now?

 

[grndproxwarning]

[blockquote]
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On 12/7/2002 1:39:20 PM KCFlyer wrote:

Sorry if this sounds heartless, but from everything I've read on this and other boards, there is supposedly a 20-25% overcapacity in the airlne system. Seems to me that it's a no win situation....Let one or two airlines fail and get that capacity reduction and there's pain. Proping up failing airlines while still looking for a 20-25% capacity reduction only results in the same amount of pain at a higher cost.
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[/blockquote]
I hate to say it,but you are right.
I think it is closer to 30-35%

 

[grndproxwarning]

[blockquote]
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On 12/7/2002 1:39:20 PM KCFlyer wrote:

Sorry if this sounds heartless, but from everything I've read on this and other boards, there is supposedly a 20-25% overcapacity in the airlne system. Seems to me that it's a no win situation....Let one or two airlines fail and get that capacity reduction and there's pain. Proping up failing airlines while still looking for a 20-25% capacity reduction only results in the same amount of pain at a higher cost.
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[/blockquote]
I hate to say it,but you are right.
I think it is closer to 30-35%

 

[whlinder]

1. I don't buy the notion that there is overcapacity in the industry. The only overcapacity is that of high-cost airlines.

2. Kudos to the ATSB for turning down UA's loan. The government should not be sustaining firms that cannot survive on their own. The free-market works and it needs to be allowed to work and to weed out the weekest firms.

3. Jesse Jackson is a moron.

jmho

 

[whlinder]

1. I don't buy the notion that there is overcapacity in the industry. The only overcapacity is that of high-cost airlines.

2. Kudos to the ATSB for turning down UA's loan. The government should not be sustaining firms that cannot survive on their own. The free-market works and it needs to be allowed to work and to weed out the weekest firms.

3. Jesse Jackson is a moron.

jmho

 

[Winglet]

whlinder - If you don't believe there is overcapacity in the industry, you need to get on airplanes and count butts in seats, then subtract the non-revs and skymile spenders. After that find out what the regular guy paid for a fare. There is a tremendous amount of overcapacity in the industry even with tickets selling at below cost prices. The airlines sell seats. Right now there are too many seats . . . period. I don't believe that business is not flying becuase of fares. They're not flying because their business is not good and it's not imperative. When business picks up and they have to travel again, they'll do it, and they won't care that much about what it costs. The profit that is generated by the trip makes the cost of a plane ticket insignificant. It's supply and demand. If U and UAL were to pack it in, supply would dry up and you'd see the rest of the carriers get healthy pretty quick.

 

[Winglet]

whlinder - If you don't believe there is overcapacity in the industry, you need to get on airplanes and count butts in seats, then subtract the non-revs and skymile spenders. After that find out what the regular guy paid for a fare. There is a tremendous amount of overcapacity in the industry even with tickets selling at below cost prices. The airlines sell seats. Right now there are too many seats . . . period. I don't believe that business is not flying becuase of fares. They're not flying because their business is not good and it's not imperative. When business picks up and they have to travel again, they'll do it, and they won't care that much about what it costs. The profit that is generated by the trip makes the cost of a plane ticket insignificant. It's supply and demand. If U and UAL were to pack it in, supply would dry up and you'd see the rest of the carriers get healthy pretty quick.

 

[Bob Owens]

[blockquote]
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On 12/7/2002 8:02:31 PM whlinder wrote:

1. I don't buy the notion that there is overcapacity in the industry. The only overcapacity is that of high-cost airlines.

2. Kudos to the ATSB for turning down UA's loan. The government should not be sustaining firms that cannot survive on their own. The free-market works and it needs to be allowed to work and to weed out the weekest firms.

3. Jesse Jackson is a moron.

jmho
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[/blockquote]

What Free-Market?

 

[Bob Owens]

[blockquote]
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On 12/7/2002 8:02:31 PM whlinder wrote:

1. I don't buy the notion that there is overcapacity in the industry. The only overcapacity is that of high-cost airlines.

2. Kudos to the ATSB for turning down UA's loan. The government should not be sustaining firms that cannot survive on their own. The free-market works and it needs to be allowed to work and to weed out the weekest firms.

3. Jesse Jackson is a moron.

jmho
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[/blockquote]

What Free-Market?