Should SWA buy Aloha?

Aug 19, 2002
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www.usaviation.com
This is a very complex question.....Should we buy Aloha Airlines?. Personally I think it would be a great idea as SW and AQ operate similar fleets....OAK/LAS/PHX and to a lesser extent SNA are SW strongholds (ablity to generate traffic)...we pick up the Hawaii and Pacific Islands market. I do believe that the the two cultures can be combined. I know HNL is a pretty diluted market but if we ran the flights with typical SWA frequency...we could make a profit on those runs. I know the cost of keeping the fleet ETOPS certified is high....but I think we could pull it off!Anybody else have any insight?
 

verhalen2003

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Aug 20, 2002
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I don't think it would be compatible with WN's cost model (would drive costs up). However, if and when WN runs out of room to expand in the contiguous 48, it could happen. I'd think maybe Canadian and Mexican destinations would come first because the costs to expand their could be lower (?).
 

WNjetdoc

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Aug 20, 2002
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Speaking of our neighbors to the north, has anyone heard about the rumor of WN and WestJet? If you check out WestJets website it sounds like the same company as WN. Not to mention only 737's and ordering new 700's. Kinda interesting, IMO.
 
Aug 22, 2002
23
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www.usaviation.com
There was a discussion thread about the Southwest/Westjet merger rumor on Airliners.net about a month ago. One poster mentioned that there is a 25% foreign ownership limit on Canadian carriers so that would prevent Southwest total ownership. Here's the link to that discussion:

Airliners.Net
 

mga707

Veteran
Aug 19, 2002
1,330
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On 8/29/2002 11:52:30 PM

Has anyone flown Aloha from the OAK to HNL? I bet that flight would suck as a PAX. ----------------

I haven't, but I'll disagree anyway--here's why: AQ's -700s only have 112 coach seats--that's only SIX more coach seats than the 106 Y seats that most of their inter-island -200s have, in a substantially longer fuselage. A couple of their -200s actually have MORE coach seats (118) than the -700s!
So, the coach seat pitch on their long hauls has got to be decent, and, assuming they have the same friendly cabin service that they have inter-island, with the addition of actual meals (not just the POG juice!), I would conjecture that it would be a pleasant five-hour flight. As far as entertainment goes, I'd rather bring my own anyway...
 

Rhino

Senior
Aug 20, 2002
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Aloha merger? No way. SWA is too concerned about employee culture to attempt this. Morris convinced the Love Field bigwigs that mergers/acquisitions are not the way to go. Possible codeshare from west coast. Unlikely.

Has anyone flown Aloha from the OAK to HNL? I bet that flight would suck as a PAX. I don't like flying SWA long hauls, and I always get a window seat.

WestJet? Possible codeshare. Unlikely.
 

Rhino

Senior
Aug 20, 2002
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707, thanks once again for your informed postings.

I suppose I could research it, but what galley/lav/F config do those 700s have? As you know, rows don't always tell the story.

I only flew their 200s and the pitch was adequate only for a teenie wahine. The flights are so short, it doesn't really matter, though.
 

swflyer

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Aug 20, 2002
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Has anyone flown Aloha from the OAK to HNL? I bet that flight would suck as a PAX

I put a friend on an Aloha flight, last Feb., from OGG to SNA. He's a Skywest pilot and gave a VERY favorable report.

Service was constant and wonderful. The flight attendants never stopped. Snack and bev service, then free Mai Tai's, then a 'substantial' dinner w/more beverages. A movie was shown followed by a CNN compliation piece. Screens were every third row in the overhead bins. Mid-movie, the flight attendants offered coffee/tea/water service. During the CNN feed, cookies were baked onboard and served with milk after the show.

The seating felt "no more or less than the other majors" and he only remembers two lavs, fwd and aft.

He talked about how great they were for weeks and would definitely use Aloha again.

[:bigsmile:]...and now back to our regularly scheduled SWA program....[:bigsmile:]
 

FrugalFlyer

Senior
Aug 20, 2002
254
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On 8/29/2002 11:42:07 PM

There was a discussion thread about the Southwest/Westjet merger rumor on Airliners.net about a month ago. One poster mentioned that there is a 25% foreign ownership limit on Canadian carriers so that would prevent Southwest total ownership. Here's the link to that discussion:

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Instead of a Southwest/Westjet merger, what about codeshare? Or an alliance? Do the costs of such a venture outweigh the benefits? What are the negatives?
 

mga707

Veteran
Aug 19, 2002
1,330
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On 8/30/2002 7:51:54 AM

707, thanks once again for your informed postings.

I suppose I could research it, but what galley/lav/F config do those 700s have? As you know, rows don't always tell the story.

I only flew their 200s and the pitch was adequate only for a teenie wahine. The flights are so short, it doesn't really matter, though.
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"teenie wahine"--LOL![:bigsmile:]

AQ's -700s have 12 F seats (three rows), same as on most of their -200s (a few -200s only have 10 F seats).
Another poster reported (second hand) that they do serve hot meals, so that would indicate full galleys, and only had two lavs. That to me would be the only concern, as three lavs on a five hour flight with about 125 pax would certainly be nicer--although in March I flew a pretty full ATA 757-200 (over 200 pax) OGG-PHX with only two working lavs (one was inop). Gate agents were warning people to go before boarding! [:0]
 

AAmech

Veteran
Aug 22, 2002
766
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You WN'ers are getting too caught up in minor details. You need to be thinking about the great Non Revving Possiblities!!!![;)]
 
Aug 22, 2002
23
1
www.usaviation.com
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On 8/29/2002 11:42:07 PM

There was a discussion thread about the Southwest/Westjet merger rumor on Airliners.net about a month ago. One poster mentioned that there is a 25% foreign ownership limit on Canadian carriers so that would prevent Southwest total ownership. Here's the link to that discussion:

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Instead of a Southwest/Westjet merger, what about codeshare? Or an alliance? Do the costs of such a venture outweigh the benefits? What are the negatives?


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[/quote]

Southwest tried a codeshare arrangement with Iceland Air several years ago. Cleveland was the gateway city and it was very small in scope. They discontinued it after a relatively short time due in part to interlining problems with another carrier. Southwest's systems and operations aren't geared to handle reservations and transfers of this type and I suspect that it would be very expensive to add this capability. Still, if they wanted to establish a presence in Canada this would seem to be a good way to do it.
 

MrMarky

Advanced
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Southwest tried a codeshare arrangement with Iceland Air several years ago. Cleveland was the gateway city...
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Now there's an idea. I had never thought of that before. Just think of the traffic you'd generate between Cleveland and Iceland! With that big vacuum now open due to the discontinuance of this vital service, how long do you think it will be before US Airways jumps in??[:bigsmile:] [:bigsmile:] [:bigsmile:]
 

Busdrvr

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
2,217
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On 8/30/2002 11:02:21 PM

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Southwest tried a codeshare arrangement with Iceland Air several years ago. Cleveland was the gateway city...
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Now there's an idea. I had never thought of that before. Just think of the traffic you'd generate between Cleveland and Iceland! With that big vacuum now open due to the discontinuance of this vital service, how long do you think it will be before US Airways jumps in??[:bigsmile:] [:bigsmile:] [:bigsmile:]
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LOL, You ever been to Iceland? Some of the hottest women in the world, and they drink A LOT. If I lived in Cleveland, Iceland would sound real good!!!