Some fine words from your CEO ((scary))

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On 7/29/2003 12:30:20 AM iflyjetz wrote:

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On 7/28/2003 7:08:25 PM Borescope wrote:
The only ones who are recovering rapidly are the LUV's and the Jet Blue's. Everyone else showed a loss if it wasn't for the handouts from the tax payers. Airlines are showing record LF's, but if it costs you $90 to fly a pax and you charge $70, you can fill all the seats you have and not have anything to show for it. The truth will come when the summer is over and people slow their travel down. That's when we'll really see who's doing the "rapid recovery".
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Borescope, UAL's cash position has increased since Jan 03.
Yields have increased greatly over the last 3 months, so I'd find it hard to believe that UAL's losing money. More of a book cooking exercise to squeeze us turnips a bit more.

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On 7/29/2003 12:30:20 AM iflyjetz wrote:

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On 7/28/2003 7:08:25 PM Borescope wrote:
The only ones who are recovering rapidly are the LUV's and the Jet Blue's. Everyone else showed a loss if it wasn't for the handouts from the tax payers. Airlines are showing record LF's, but if it costs you $90 to fly a pax and you charge $70, you can fill all the seats you have and not have anything to show for it. The truth will come when the summer is over and people slow their travel down. That's when we'll really see who's doing the "rapid recovery".
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Borescope, UAL's cash position has increased since Jan 03.
Yields have increased greatly over the last 3 months, so I'd find it hard to believe that UAL's losing money. More of a book cooking exercise to squeeze us turnips a bit more.

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On 7/29/2003 12:30:20 AM iflyjetz wrote:

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On 7/28/2003 7:08:25 PM Borescope wrote:
The only ones who are recovering rapidly are the LUV's and the Jet Blue's. Everyone else showed a loss if it wasn't for the handouts from the tax payers. Airlines are showing record LF's, but if it costs you $90 to fly a pax and you charge $70, you can fill all the seats you have and not have anything to show for it. The truth will come when the summer is over and people slow their travel down. That's when we'll really see who's doing the "rapid recovery".
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Borescope, UAL's cash position has increased since Jan 03.
Yields have increased greatly over the last 3 months, so I'd find it hard to believe that UAL's losing money. More of a book cooking exercise to squeeze us turnips a bit more.

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On 7/29/2003 12:30:20 AM iflyjetz wrote:

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On 7/28/2003 7:08:25 PM Borescope wrote:
The only ones who are recovering rapidly are the LUV's and the Jet Blue's. Everyone else showed a loss if it wasn't for the handouts from the tax payers. Airlines are showing record LF's, but if it costs you $90 to fly a pax and you charge $70, you can fill all the seats you have and not have anything to show for it. The truth will come when the summer is over and people slow their travel down. That's when we'll really see who's doing the "rapid recovery".
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Borescope, UAL's cash position has increased since Jan 03.
Yields have increased greatly over the last 3 months, so I'd find it hard to believe that UAL's losing money. More of a book cooking exercise to squeeze us turnips a bit more.

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Book cooking in BK your kidding right!
 
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On 7/29/2003 12:30:20 AM iflyjetz wrote:

I'd find it hard to believe that UAL's losing money.


More of a book cooking exercise to squeeze us turnips a bit more.

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Do you believe it now, after yesterdays announcement, or do you still think your a turnip?
 
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On 8/2/2003 5:52:15 PM Borescope wrote:

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On 7/29/2003 12:30:20 AM iflyjetz wrote:

I'd find it hard to believe that UAL's losing money.


More of a book cooking exercise to squeeze us turnips a bit more.

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Do you believe it now, after yesterdays announcement, or do you still think your a turnip?

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Borescope, your response is unintelligible. I stated in my post (priot to the quarterly announcement) that I found it hard to believe that UAL was losing money and that any losses shown were more of a book cooking excercise to squeeze us turnips a bit more.

Let's look at the numbers for a moment. UAL was cash positive by >$500 mil for the quarter, yet showed a loss of $623 mil. How can that be?
Take a look beyond the basic numbers for a moment. Look at the charges for the quarter.
397 mil reorganization charges
152 mil curtailment fees
41 mil loss on sale of aircraft
137 mil Air Canada writedown
249 mil additional reorganization charges
That's 976 mil in nonrecurring charges. And I'm sure that I could several more charges along those lines if I dug a bit deeper.

Borescope, have you ever wondered how SO MANY companies can hit their quarterly earnings estimates within a few cents? GAAP allows significant leeway for companies to state earnings. You have to go beyond the headline numbers to see what's really going on. Companies make their numbers with nonrecurring charges or profits all the time. Many times companies will use nonrecurring charges to either 'blow away' earnings estimates, or exacerbate losses. Look no further than Enron or Worldcom if you have any faith in quarterly results using GAAP.
 
You are absolutely right. Booking cooking in bankruptcy is ludicrous and can't be done.

Remember one thing, the millions that are currently being expensed to pay for the restructuring and the lawyers while in bankruptcy will be wiped out when UAL emerges from bankruptcy. That part of the cash flow will return to UAL's positive side of the spread sheet. The millions being saved will be reallocated elsewhere to run the airline.