Soul Searching

[cactusboy53]

Well given the 2400 plus page of child like temper tantrums on the pilot thread, one could easily support Dog's argument.

SparrowH;

I would also agree with some of the child-like temper tantrums. If you have read these boards, you also know there are west posters that methodically post rebuttal and factual data only to be beaten down by the tyranny of the majority.

We've been at this merger dance for over SIX years now. We have been forced to legally defend our seniority rights as determined by an agreed upon process for over FOUR years now. We have successfully brought a DFR lawsuit that was wrongfully punted for ripeness only TWO years ago. We HAD a 90%+ completed contract tentative agreement done over FOUR years ago. We have a new union that chose to start the negotiating process anew, and promised a new contract in 6 months (that was THREE+ years ago). We have an independent union that has spent more money in fruitless litigation than ANY OTHER independent union in the history of organized labor. We have a union that has attempted to FIRE more members than any other union in the history of organized labor. Our union leadership has a choke hold on all important committees of the union. Volunteers that balk at the leadership are summarily FIRED.

If you were forced into the same situation, wouldn't you be upset? Wouldn't you rant? This is BOSTON TEA PARTY stuff, Sparrow. Taxation WITHOUT representation.

We (the west pilot group) are sick and tired of the attempted hostage situation that we have been placed in by the east pilot group. We must pay our union in order to keep our jobs, but are also forced to fund our legal defense.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again: East pilots.....How about you allow the West pilots to place 2/3 of the union dues that we pay into an escrow account? You can then assess yourselves the funds necessary to pay for your legal stance. That sounds FAIR.

 

[SparrowHawk]

SparrowH;

I would also agree with some of the child-like temper tantrums. If you have read these boards, you also know there are west posters that methodically post rebuttal and factual data only to be beaten down by the tyranny of the majority.

Regardless of the validity of arguments from both sides, the extreme lack of civility demeans every pilot who dons a US Airways uniform. This board is read regularly by the media and likely had a hand in The Cranky Flyer website landing on USAPA like a ton of bricks, not that many of those bricks weren't warranted. In the court of public opinion the war is lost and the mirror will show who is at fault

We've been at this merger dance for over SIX years now. We have been forced to legally defend our seniority rights as determined by an agreed upon process for over FOUR years now. We have successfully brought a DFR lawsuit that was wrongfully punted for ripeness only TWO years ago. We HAD a 90%+ completed contract tentative agreement done over FOUR years ago. We have a new union that chose to start the negotiating process anew, and promised a new contract in 6 months (that was THREE+ years ago). We have an independent union that has spent more money in fruitless litigation than ANY OTHER independent union in the history of organized labor. We have a union that has attempted to FIRE more members than any other union in the history of organized labor. Our union leadership has a choke hold on all important committees of the union. Volunteers that balk at the leadership are summarily FIRED.

Ask yourself this, "If Doug Parker had gotten involved in the very early stages of the merger and subsequent pilot integration would we be where we are now"? Look at the other mergers and their pilot integrations. Have there been a few hiccups? YES, but none of them have or likely will turn into a battle royal like we have at US. Doug looked at the spreadsheet and figured out that a prolong pilot squabble would likely save money and that is all Doug knows or cares about.

If you were forced into the same situation, wouldn't you be upset? Wouldn't you rant? This is BOSTON TEA PARTY stuff, Sparrow. Taxation WITHOUT representation.

If I were in this situation, I wouldn't be. Not after 6 years of BS. I'd go fly freight and already have 6 years on the seniority list at a likely higher level of pay. IMO any pilot in the employ of US with 10 years or less seniority that isn't actively looking on their days off is not very bright as IMO you are years away from a contract.

We (the west pilot group) are sick and tired of the attempted hostage situation that we have been placed in by the east pilot group. We must pay our union in order to keep our jobs, but are also forced to fund our legal defense.

See previous comment

I've said this before, and I'll say it again: East pilots.....How about you allow the West pilots to place 2/3 of the union dues that we pay into an escrow account? You can then assess yourselves the funds necessary to pay for your legal stance. That sounds FAIR.

Fair? This has nothing to do with fair. It has to do with greed. On both sides. Both East & West staked out with extreme positions with all of the associated bluster and rhetoric. Now everybody is going "Holy Turbo Prop Batman we was screwed". Again look in the mirror. Fairness has nothing to do with business or Labor negotiations. Companies don't care how loyal you are, how long you worked there, or how much better you are at your job. Even as a pilot you're just so much #### on Doug's shoes, as replaceable as a Tug, fuel truck or an APU. US Management shows you who they are everyday and you refuse to believe them.

 

[toganoflex]

Regardless of the validity of arguments from both sides, the extreme lack of civility demeans every pilot who dons a US Airways uniform. This board is read regularly by the media and likely had a hand in The Cranky Flyer website landing on USAPA like a ton of bricks, not that many of those bricks weren't warranted. In the court of public opinion the war is lost and the mirror will show who is at fault



Ask yourself this, "If Doug Parker had gotten involved in the very early stages of the merger and subsequent pilot integration would we be where we are now"? Look at the other mergers and their pilot integrations. Have there been a few hiccups? YES, but none of them have or likely will turn into a battle royal like we have at US. Doug looked at the spreadsheet and figured out that a prolong pilot squabble would likely save money and that is all Doug knows or cares about.



If I were in this situation, I wouldn't be. Not after 6 years of BS. I'd go fly freight and already have 6 years on the seniority list at a likely higher level of pay. IMO any pilot in the employ of US with 10 years or less seniority that isn't actively looking on their days off is not very bright as IMO you are years away from a contract.



See previous comment



Fair? This has nothing to do with fair. It has to do with greed. On both sides. Both East & West staked out with extreme positions with all of the associated bluster and rhetoric. Now everybody is going "Holy Turbo Prop Batman we was screwed". Again look in the mirror. Fairness has nothing to do with business or Labor negotiations. Companies don't care how loyal you are, how long you worked there, or how much better you are at your job. Even as a pilot you're just so much #### on Doug's shoes, as replaceable as a Tug, fuel truck or an APU. US Management shows you who they are everyday and you refuse to believe them.

The west's position was neither extreme nor unfair.

In fact, the final award looked more like AWA's proposed list and NO WHERE NEAR the east's list.

 

[toganoflex]

OK, so am I a pilot? NO!

Then why are you here?

 

[SparrowHawk]

Then why are you here?

A:My endless love for you?
B: I'm an Aviation Junkie?
C: I get off on extremely talented pilots acting like A-holes?
D: I'm bored and reading your rants relieves the boredom?
E: I enjoy watching grown adults behave like children?
F: I like to stir the pot and this is one boiling caldron?

That good enough for ya? Look up civility next time you think about it. Then try to live the definition. I found the definition for you and here it is

ci·vil·i·ty
   [si-vil-i-tee]
–noun, plural -ties.
1. courtesy; politeness.
2. a polite action or expression: an exchange of civilities.

 

[luvthe9]

Were we in bankruptcy or close to it? No.

Zanzibar was a plan. Every company has a Zanzibar.

We weren't close to bankruptcy. It wasn't even on the horizon.

And your post proves your continuing idiocy. What god-damn company uses its own money for these things? Not many. Spread the risk to everyone else.

Buy a book on business. Education will set you free.

Where are your pay and benefits? We've had a number of industry-leading provision in our contract. I've NEVER taken a pay cut. We've NEVER been at the bottom.

You guys are cellar. I'm mean THE very bottom. You have commuter guys making more than you and you and your pilot group should be ashamed of yourselves for bringing down to bar for the rest of your fellow pilots.

Pathetic.

How can you take a cut, when you were so far down, they didn t have the heart to do it when AWA was tanking all those years. How do you put your work force on food stamps that long? You never had a pension, you set the standard lowest for DECADES! Your best provision was probably those crew meals that blew you guys up like balloons in that crew news video. I would suggest getting rid of them. The sodium and other additives make the anger come out, like the crazy woman with her kid, and the poncho dude.

 

[luvthe9]

Regardless of the validity of arguments from both sides, the extreme lack of civility demeans every pilot who dons a US Airways uniform. This board is read regularly by the media and likely had a hand in The Cranky Flyer website landing on USAPA like a ton of bricks, not that many of those bricks weren't warranted. In the court of public opinion the war is lost and the mirror will show who is at fault



Ask yourself this, "If Doug Parker had gotten involved in the very early stages of the merger and subsequent pilot integration would we be where we are now"? Look at the other mergers and their pilot integrations. Have there been a few hiccups? YES, but none of them have or likely will turn into a battle royal like we have at US. Doug looked at the spreadsheet and figured out that a prolong pilot squabble would likely save money and that is all Doug knows or cares about.



If I were in this situation, I wouldn't be. Not after 6 years of BS. I'd go fly freight and already have 6 years on the seniority list at a likely higher level of pay. IMO any pilot in the employ of US with 10 years or less seniority that isn't actively looking on their days off is not very bright as IMO you are years away from a contract.



See previous comment



Fair? This has nothing to do with fair. It has to do with greed. On both sides. Both East & West staked out with extreme positions with all of the associated bluster and rhetoric. Now everybody is going "Holy Turbo Prop Batman we was screwed". Again look in the mirror. Fairness has nothing to do with business or Labor negotiations. Companies don't care how loyal you are, how long you worked there, or how much better you are at your job. Even as a pilot you're just so much #### on Doug's shoes, as replaceable as a Tug, fuel truck or an APU. US Management shows you who they are everyday and you refuse to believe them.

This is the leadership this company has. The entire operation is a mess as a result of the man, at the top. A loser.

updated 2/11/2007 7:48:30 PM ET
Share Print Font:
PHOENIX — US Airways chief executive Doug Parker was arrested on a drunken driving charge just hours after his airline’s $9.8 billion bid for Delta Air Lines was rejected last week, Scottsdale police said Friday.
Parker, 45, was pulled over at 11:30 p.m. on Jan. 31, after leaving a party at the FBR Open golf tournament in Scottsdale, police Sgt. Mark Clark said. Parker was pulled over for driving 20 mph over the posted speed limit of 45 mph.
Results released Friday show Parker had a blood-alcohol level of 0.096, according to Clark. The legal limit in Arizona is 0.08.
According to a police report, Parker told police he had three beers during a two-hour period.
The arresting officer, Ben Roberson, wrote in the police report that Parker had bloodshot and watery eyes, slurred speech and alcohol on his breath. Parker refused to take a breathalyzer test, the report shows.
The officer performed roadside sobriety tests and arrested Parker. He then took Parker to a DUI task force post for booking and to have blood drawn for an alcohol-level test. Before the test was given, the report shows Parker asked to speak with a lawyer who also had been a passenger in his black BMW when he was pulled over.
The lawyer told Parker over the phone to take the test, the report shows.
Advertise | AdChoices





Parker, a husband and father of three children who lives in the posh town of Paradise Valley, was cited for DUI and driving at an imprudent speed and released the night of his arrest. Police called a taxi for him and had his car towed.
Parker is scheduled to appear in Scottsdale Municipal Court on Feb. 21.
The CEO wrote two letters to employees regarding the incident.

 

[CV580ETOPS]

SparrowH;

I would also agree with some of the child-like temper tantrums. If you have read these boards, you also know there are west posters that methodically post rebuttal and factual data only to be beaten down by the tyranny of the majority.

We've been at this merger dance for over SIX years now. We have been forced to legally defend our seniority rights as determined by an agreed upon process for over FOUR years now. We have successfully brought a DFR lawsuit that was wrongfully punted for ripeness only TWO years ago. We HAD a 90%+ completed contract tentative agreement done over FOUR years ago. We have a new union that chose to start the negotiating process anew, and promised a new contract in 6 months (that was THREE+ years ago). We have an independent union that has spent more money in fruitless litigation than ANY OTHER independent union in the history of organized labor. We have a union that has attempted to FIRE more members than any other union in the history of organized labor. Our union leadership has a choke hold on all important committees of the union. Volunteers that balk at the leadership are summarily FIRED.If you were forced into the same situation, wouldn't you be upset? Wouldn't you rant? This is BOSTON TEA PARTY stuff, Sparrow. Taxation WITHOUT representation.We (the west pilot group) are sick and tired of the attempted hostage situation that we have been placed in by the east pilot group. We must pay our union in order to keep our jobs, but are also forced to fund our legal defense.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again: East pilots.....How about you allow the West pilots to place 2/3 of the union dues that we pay into an escrow account? You can then assess yourselves the funds necessary to pay for your legal stance. That sounds FAIR.

Then explain to everyone here why you art so hell bent on trying to reform USAPA when it appears the majority east members and predominatley east leadership don't want it reformed and you don't have the numbers out west to push through the reforms youand I guess others out west desire ???


cv

 

[toganoflex]

How can you take a cut, when you were so far down, they didn t have the heart to do it when AWA was tanking all those years. How do you put your work force on food stamps that long? You never had a pension, you set the standard lowest for DECADES! Your best provision was probably those crew meals that blew you guys up like balloons in that crew news video. I would suggest getting rid of them. The sodium and other additives make the anger come out, like the crazy woman with her kid, and the poncho dude.

You barely have a retirement NOW.

You are the lowest paid NOW.

 

[toganoflex]

This is the leadership this company has. The entire operation is a mess as a result of the man, at the top. A loser.

updated 2/11/2007 7:48:30 PM ET
Share Print Font:
PHOENIX — US Airways chief executive Doug Parker was arrested on a drunken driving charge just hours after his airline’s $9.8 billion bid for Delta Air Lines was rejected last week, Scottsdale police said Friday.
Parker, 45, was pulled over at 11:30 p.m. on Jan. 31, after leaving a party at the FBR Open golf tournament in Scottsdale, police Sgt. Mark Clark said. Parker was pulled over for driving 20 mph over the posted speed limit of 45 mph.
Results released Friday show Parker had a blood-alcohol level of 0.096, according to Clark. The legal limit in Arizona is 0.08.
According to a police report, Parker told police he had three beers during a two-hour period.
The arresting officer, Ben Roberson, wrote in the police report that Parker had bloodshot and watery eyes, slurred speech and alcohol on his breath. Parker refused to take a breathalyzer test, the report shows.
The officer performed roadside sobriety tests and arrested Parker. He then took Parker to a DUI task force post for booking and to have blood drawn for an alcohol-level test. Before the test was given, the report shows Parker asked to speak with a lawyer who also had been a passenger in his black BMW when he was pulled over.
The lawyer told Parker over the phone to take the test, the report shows.
Advertise | AdChoices





Parker, a husband and father of three children who lives in the posh town of Paradise Valley, was cited for DUI and driving at an imprudent speed and released the night of his arrest. Police called a taxi for him and had his car towed.
Parker is scheduled to appear in Scottsdale Municipal Court on Feb. 21.
The CEO wrote two letters to employees regarding the incident.

Anyone know why Ckeary has spent alot of tine on medical?

Can anyone post Mowery's little ditty from Volusia County in Florida?

 

[toganoflex]

A:My endless love for you?
B: I'm an Aviation Junkie?
C: I get off on extremely talented pilots acting like A-holes?
D: I'm bored and reading your rants relieves the boredom?
E: I enjoy watching grown adults behave like children?
F: I like to stir the pot and this is one boiling caldron?

That good enough for ya? Look up civility next time you think about it. Then try to live the definition. I found the definition for you and here it is

ci·vil·i·ty
   [si-vil-i-tee]
–noun, plural -ties.
1. courtesy; politeness.
2. a polite action or expression: an exchange of civilities.

You pilot wanna-be's can be pretty annoying.

Find your own piece of life. In fact, get A life.

Now MYOFB.

 

[SparrowHawk]

Now MYOFB.

I don't need to be a pilot in order to be obnoxious and arrogant as you, I can do it all by myself thank you very much.

When I buy a ticket and am delayed and miss-connect because of pilot shenanigans then it become my business.

Besides, Some people play Farmville and others play "Annoy Toganoflex" which is still permissible since we still have a COTUS. There is a very small area known as the flight deck where you have absolute authority and last time I looked the flight deck isn't here so do enjoy the rest of your day. Oh and bother way do try to be civil as your conduct is quite unbecoming for someone who is rapidly turning a profession into a job.

Have a good day.

 

[Claxon]

Easthole is in reference to the east pilots who are perpetuating this mess.

I am former NWA. The America West pilots have laid the cornerstone that has come back to destroy the industry. Their low wages have spread like a cancer. It is a shame they did not go out of business years ago. They scabbed also. Disgusting. If I were a USAir pilot, I would keep them at bay forever. You will never be able to get a contract with a group that acts like they do here. They openly side with management. They are stupid as well as greedy. As I recall you did not have to have anything other than a HS diploma to get in. It shows.

 

[767one]

Shut up with that BS.

Try reading the complaint and the evidence the company has. Your full of #### with what you just wrote.

You and the rest of your yellow necker buddies better fall into place or you'll be looking for jobs.

And MELs are supposed to be carried you idiot. That's why they're MELs.

Ok,

The 75/76 is legal to fly with all lav toilets inop. The captain has some discretion on the fwd lav but it is LEGAL to go with no working toilets. Would you go PHL to PHX with no toilets working because the mel says it is legal? Many things in life we can do are legal but not all of these legal things are safe or smart. Don't allow your hatred of all things east cloud your judgement. Do you have a personal limit on how many mels you should carry? 5 , 10, 15 or more? When you pass thru a mtc base or the airplane rons at a mtc base do you think an attempt should be made to clear an mel or do you just look at the legal limit the item can be on mel and worry about it the last day?

Bob

 

[toganoflex]

I don't need to be a pilot in order to be obnoxious and arrogant as you, I can do it all by myself thank you very much.

When I buy a ticket and am delayed and miss-connect because of pilot shenanigans then it become my business.

Besides, Some people play Farmville and others play "Annoy Toganoflex" which is still permissible since we still have a COTUS. There is a very small area known as the flight deck where you have absolute authority and last time I looked the flight deck isn't here so do enjoy the rest of your day. Oh and bother way do try to be civil as you conduct is quite unbecoming for someone who is rapidly turning a profession into a job.

Have a good day.

Customer relations - find the number. When you get cancelled you go there.