Southwest Keen On Charlotte But Won't Give A Time

[speedbird86]

Fares and competiton kinda go together. But more flights than US in CLT. I doubt it.

 

[ELP_WN_Psgr]

Fares and competiton kinda go together. But more flights than US in CLT. I doubt it.

You know, if a place is not a hub...and you aren't funneling travelers through there from Dallas to Harrisburg, you probably don't NEED as many flights.

Having 563 flights a day to choose from sounds good on paper, but what really works well is when you have 80-150 well timed departures to popular destinations with reasonable walk up fares on mainline sized equipment and you don't have to compete with a buttload of transfer passengers for those seats.

If you ask the traveling public in Kansas City or Nashville or Albuquerque if they'd rather be a hub or would rather keep what they have, I'd be willing to be most would say keep what they have.

 

[Travelpro72]

We can run but we can't hide.... h34r:

 

[JS]

You know, if a place is not a hub...and you aren't funneling travelers through there from Dallas to Harrisburg, you probably don't NEED as many flights.

Having 563 flights a day to choose from sounds good on paper, but what really works well is when you have 80-150 well timed departures to popular destinations with reasonable walk up fares on mainline sized equipment and you don't have to compete with a buttload of transfer passengers for those seats.

If you ask the traveling public in Kansas City or Nashville or Albuquerque if they'd rather be a hub or would rather keep what they have, I'd be willing to be most would say keep what they have.

[post="258026"][/post]​

What about unpopular destinations? What about the previous transfer passengers who face a three hour drive to reach the nearest airport? Screw 'em?

 

[BoeingBoy]

You missed the point..

If the city of CLT was smart they would take a chance and just kick
US Airways out of some of their under utilized gates in the B wing..

[post="257974"][/post]​

Well, since I was responding to airport's question about gate leases I don't think I missed the point. However, your point (posted while I was typing my reply to airport) is equally valid - I suspect that if WN wanted a few gates in CLT a way would be found to make it happen.

Jim

 

[ELP_WN_Psgr]

What about unpopular destinations? What about the previous transfer passengers who face a three hour drive to reach the nearest airport? Screw 'em?

In a word, yes.

Although I hate to phrase it quite that way.

Here is my question for you, JS:

I fly a lot between Dallas and El Paso. It's a 650 mi drive, roughly...9 1/2 - 10 hrs. I pay anywhere from $45 (on a "Ding" fare) to $60 to $85 to occasionally a full fare walk up of $140 each way. With gas prices what they are, those are decent fares.

Should I have to pay more to subsidize the travel of someone who insists on flying from State College, PA to Roswell, NM? Let supply and demand and market forces dictate what fares ought to be.

 

[JS]

In a word, yes.

Although I hate to phrase it quite that way.

Here is my question for you, JS:

I fly a lot between Dallas and El Paso. It's a 650 mi drive, roughly...9 1/2 - 10 hrs. I pay anywhere from $45 (on a "Ding" fare) to $60 to $85 to occasionally a full fare walk up of $140 each way. With gas prices what they are, those are decent fares.

Should I have to pay more to subsidize the travel of someone who insists on flying from State College, PA to Roswell, NM? Let supply and demand and market forces dictate what fares ought to be.

[post="258043"][/post]​

Who said anything about paying more? My point was that WN taking over for US in CLT does have some downsides.

Or, if you think that legacy carriers charge more on some routes in order to subsidize others, you are wrong. Airlines charge fares on each route independent of where else they might fly.

 

[ELP_WN_Psgr]

Airlines charge fares on each route independent of where else they might fly.

Oh really?

You mean to tell me that USAirways or Delta or any other legacy carrier, for that matter, does not raise prices in markets where there is no LCC competition in order to make up for revenue shortfalls caused by competing with LCC carriers in other routes?

 

[KCFlyer]

Oh really?

You mean to tell me that USAirways or Delta or any other legacy carrier, for that matter, does not raise prices in markets where there is no LCC competition in order to make up for revenue shortfalls caused by competing with LCC carriers in other routes?

[post="258057"][/post]​

Or maybe USAir and Delta or other legacies raise prices in markets where there is no LCC service to help subsidize those Wilmington-LGA flights?

 

[javaboy]

Need to look at RDU and Nashville when AA pulled out. They now have more flights, more competition, and lower fares than they did as a hub

[post="258019"][/post]​

yes
but to about 100 less choices of destinations.

 

[sfb]

yes
but to about 100 less choices of destinations.

Eh, not really. AA had mainline service from BNA to 30 destinations at the end of 1994, with 89 daily departures. Southwest today serves 26 cities non-stop from BNA with 85 daily departures. AA had an additional 140 daily prop flights on Eagle (this pre-dates the ERJ) to 38 unique destinations (BHM had both Eagle and AA mainline). Of course, how many O&D passengers were really flying between Nashville and places like Paducah, Louisville, Memphis, Knoxville, Chattanooga, Tupelo, Huntsville, Columbus MS, etc.? AA didn't even fly to SFO, SEA, FLL, or PBI from Nashville. BNA today has more flights to L.A., Washington/Baltimore, Houston, Austin, Tampa, Orlando, Chicago, etc.

PIT and CLT probably aren't too different. The top 30 destinations likely account for 95% or more of passengers actually traveling to or from these cities. Few people actually get on a plane in CLT to fly to GSO, RDU, AVL, ILM, FAY, GSP, CAE, ROA, FLO, etc. Few people get on planes in ERI, DUJ, AOO, FKL, MGW, CLE, SCE, HGR, etc. to fly to Pittsburgh.

 

[Finish or Ignore]

This will not be a problem. We will simply add another hub in Florida.

 

[Ch. 12]

yes
but to about 100 less choices of destinations.

[post="258066"][/post]​

Supply and Demand. Why keep routes around where there is no demand just to appease those that "remember the good ol' days"? Midway tried forcing alot of the old AA markets out of RDU (SDF, BHM, EWN, IND, etc) and they went out of business chasing old markets with very little traffic. Not even puddle-jumpers could be filled on many routes that were kept alive just for nostalgia. There is something to be said for sound business decisions and this is the major difference between WN and those that fail.

 

[JS]

Oh really?

You mean to tell me that USAirways or Delta or any other legacy carrier, for that matter, does not raise prices in markets where there is no LCC competition in order to make up for revenue shortfalls caused by competing with LCC carriers in other routes?

[post="258057"][/post]​

That is correct! (emphasis added)

Airlines do not need a reason to raise or lower a fare, or to add or subtract service.

 

[JS]

Eh, not really. AA had mainline service from BNA to 30 destinations at the end of 1994, with 89 daily departures. Southwest today serves 26 cities non-stop from BNA with 85 daily departures. AA had an additional 140 daily prop flights on Eagle (this pre-dates the ERJ) to 38 unique destinations (BHM had both Eagle and AA mainline). Of course, how many O&D passengers were really flying between Nashville and places like Paducah, Louisville, Memphis, Knoxville, Chattanooga, Tupelo, Huntsville, Columbus MS, etc.? AA didn't even fly to SFO, SEA, FLL, or PBI from Nashville. BNA today has more flights to L.A., Washington/Baltimore, Houston, Austin, Tampa, Orlando, Chicago, etc.

PIT and CLT probably aren't too different. The top 30 destinations likely account for 95% or more of passengers actually traveling to or from these cities. Few people actually get on a plane in CLT to fly to GSO, RDU, AVL, ILM, FAY, GSP, CAE, ROA, FLO, etc. Few people get on planes in ERI, DUJ, AOO, FKL, MGW, CLE, SCE, HGR, etc. to fly to Pittsburgh.

[post="258076"][/post]​

That will happen in any hub that has more than one destination. Southwest is no exception. How many people fly from HOU to CRP, compared to DAL? How many people fly from DAL to MAF, compared to MSY? Southwest isn't going to cancel CRP and MAF just because they supply fewer passengers. If you cancel destinations just because they aren't the most popular, you will end up with just one route.